Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations

[Michikyou]

Not true. The Dutch and Portuguese extensively traded with feudal-era Japan, and notable daimyo such as Oda Nobunaga and Date Masamune were all about foreign technology, even to the point that Date was so friendly to foreigners he established dialogue with the Pope, launched Japan's first across-the-world naval expedition, and invited Christians to practice, preach, and live in his territories.

 

And there were at least three well-known instances of foreigners actually becoming samurai, but those mostly took place in the Tokugawa shogunate and I'd have to look them up to give proper details on them.

 

While it is true that the Dutch and Portuguese were largely limited to one tiny little fort in Tokyo Bay, that doesn't change the fact that they were there. It wasn't, in fact, until mid-to-late Tokugawa shogunate that Japan went the route of "ALL GAIJIN BAD :<<< WE NO LYKE U HEER"

 

 

Apologies for the real-world loredump, Senogku era history is a bit of an amateur hobby of mine.

;-; I'm more into the heian period of japanese culture. Hgnn, poetry! Hgnn, Tankas!

Hgnn priest eduction. *swoon*

 

Sadly, I just try and stick by what i can gather/hoard from NPC's in game or plot line. Its hard when this is essentially the lore gievn by the game:

 

 

Legitimate:  ndjfndjivghgnvhjchvjkbyuvghviughvmjxuhnb uivmu______________mnfvgbnhbxcbvvjfzmkv

Devs: Oh shit, theres a blank there guys.... We got dis.

Legitimate: ndjfndjivghgnvhjchvjkbyuvghviughvmjxuhnbuivmuQUICKLYUSETHEGLUEGUN.EXPLAINITWITHMAGICmnfvgbnhbxcbvvjfzmkv

[Chris Ganale]

Haha, yeah, I'm completely stupid on any period not Sengoku so I can sympathize. Utter truth about the way the lore gun is wielded less with grace and tact and more like a child with a chainsaw.

[Faye]

Patronizing meme featuring minorities used in a thread about minorities.

 

Oops.

 

Are you seriously trying to make this an argument of RL race now? Really??? Really? The meme was not meant to be patronizing in any way. I actually thought it might lighten the mood of the post, but perhaps that's just because I find the commercial hilarious because the meme has become a sort of running joke with a few friends and is frequently spammed in our FC every time someone is trying to make a choice between two things. Not even going to touch on the "minority" stuff because that's just really grasping at straws.

 

 

But back on topic and disregarding that nonsense, to elaborate on my own thoughts, there are exceptions to every rule. Anyone is welcome to RP as they please, and I've always found sending people personal messages about how their character's backstory is "wrong," or demanding an explanation how it fits into the lore, is rather silly and rude. Playing these exceptions is often alluring, but the problem is that when the majority wants to role-play the "exception," it stops being the "exception."

 

There's really no way to work around it except to just sort of handwave it and pretend it makes sense canonically (such as how lorewise, Miqo'te are supposed to be a very rare and secluded people, yet they make up a huge chunk of the player character population). After all, we can't have any sort of RP police telling people what they can or can't role-play to allow a privileged few to play the "exceptions" for a plethora of reasons ranging from the obvious ethical wrongness to the fact that others could simply just ignore them.

 

If I have a concept I really like that involves an unlikely combination of templates or traits, I'll still go with it if it interests me enough and I'll do my best to make it work. I'm not going to refrain from RPing something I'd really enjoy just because it's "unlikely" and I don't expect anyone else to do the same. Otherwise, though, I try to keep it simple. Unless there's some concept I'm really sold on, I try to refrain from being "exception" when I can. I'm not usually drawn toward those sorts of characters since I prefer things more straightforward and by-the-book (I play an elf to be snooty. I play a villain to be evil. I play a mage to cast spells, etc.), but it almost feels kinda like a courtesy thing. And since it seems to need saying--no, I don't expect anyone else to do the same, that's just how I approach the topic.

[Tiergan]

 

Faye, I heart you, but I have to admit that when I read "Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself." it was a little off-putting.

 

You may not have meant it that way, but for those of us that are being labeled as 'inauthentic' because we're not playing Isghardian Elezen or Ala Mhigan Highlanders, it sort of reads like:

 

"Ultimately, these people want to make characters that please themselves over making characters that are believable and lore-abiding. I'm not saying this is inherently bad or anything and I'll still RP with someone whose character is more about satisfying the player's wants over being a realistic character -- I just don't think it's a good idea."

 

If that's how you actually feel, that's okay. But I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect people might be sore about how they were labeled.

[Flashhelix]

Patronizing meme

 

 

 

Faye, I heart you, but I have to admit that when I read "Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself." it was a little off-putting.

 

I'm pretty sure that how Faye put it is quite possibly the most polite way anybody could. It's not believable. How is somebody supposed to put it? Because looking at a character concept that isn't very believable and going "That's not very believable" doesn't exactly constitute a personal attack or passive-aggressive jab at any group.

[Domri Blackblade]

I'd be surprised if anyone here isn't RPing some kind of 'exception.' I can name a handful of very out in the open interracial couples off the top of my head and, as is my understanding, that's not a very good thing in Eorzea. I would consider an open, loving interracial couple an exception. That's just me and my perception of it.

 

I don't think it's inherently bad to RP exceptions. I know I'm prone to roll my eyes when I think something is a bit much of a stretch, but I try to be fair and not judge if I haven't gotten to meet them ICly.

 

If someone can make the story work in a way that satisfies them, great. If I personally feel that I don't wish to be a part of it, far be it from me to get in their way. People write what they like; that's really the only secret to this whole topic. They envisioned a character. They wrote the character. They started RPing the character.

 

The beauty of it all is if I don't like it, I don't have to deal with it.

[Verad]

 

I'm pretty sure that how Faye put it is quite possibly the most polite way anybody could. It's not believable. How is somebody supposed to put it? Because looking at a character concept that isn't very believable and going "That's not very believable" doesn't exactly constitute a personal attack or passive-aggressive jab at any group.

 

We recognize that some players have limited imaginations, and will roleplay with them regardless of their ability to believe in things.

[Flashhelix]

 

I'm pretty sure that how Faye put it is quite possibly the most polite way anybody could. It's not believable. How is somebody supposed to put it? Because looking at a character concept that isn't very believable and going "That's not very believable" doesn't exactly constitute a personal attack or passive-aggressive jab at any group.

 

We recognize that some players have limited imaginations, and will roleplay with them regardless of their ability to believe in things.

 

passive-aggressive jab

 

 

you nailed it!

[Verad]

Well, I can't claim all the credit. I was given some excellent models in the thread. Standing on the shoulders of giants and so-forth.

[Harmonixer]

I mean once more for me it just boils down to: Who cares?

 

While I stick closer to lore in this setting there ARE things that are plausible if not rare and I’ve taken interest in inside other settings. Like. . . I don’t roleplay  to impress people with how staggeringly lore friendly my characters are. I roleplay to have fun. So if I have to choose between something that gets me excited to write about and something I enjoy or appeasing internet strangers who I wouldn’t have played with anyway I’m just. . . Gonna choose the former?

 

And as someone who isn’t playing anything too lore bendy at the moment I would much rather play with say, a Roegadyn dragoon than someone who is playing an Elezen archer if the former is more fun and engaging.

 

TL;DR

“Because it’s fun.” I say as I shrug a whole lot.

 

You know, there was a ton of posts in this thread that I found myself agreeing upon. Others, had me frowning a little because I didn't quite agree, but I respected it all the same.

 

Then I read this one and said: "I should prolly hang out with this person." The offer is extended! I did it!

 

Moving on to the topic. Ish.

 

I think I mentioned before, but I can vouch for OP. I'll be the first to admit a few times I came across things they said and thought that this was likely someone I should be careful around because 'shit, they might judge me', and 'maybe i should avoid this person'. Having numerous encounters with several people that share the same opinions of OP, not a single one of them has been a dick to me. In fact, the only people to outright be rude to me, very likely have no clue they were simply because they have their heads too far up their own asses. The opinions aren't the problem, it's the people.

 

There is some legitimately nice people around here, much to my surprise. Helpful and nice at most times. I haven't been snubbed for wanting to RP with someone. It's never been an 'this is our circle of clearly lore-centric only people' and even when I watched someone try to bring their SUPER CATGIRL SNOWFLAKE into the fray, not one of those people were rude about it. They even tried to help them justify it! Spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out ways for it to work, ways to make it fit in with the lore and how strange, the person in question only saw it as an attack!

 

It was a shame, really. None of them said 'you can't rp with me' or 'i won't rp with you'. I'm sure they won't go out of their way to RP with them, but they definitely didn't make it hostile.

 

 

I wrote this whole section about half breeds, but I deleted it on second thought. Anyway, use your brains people. I'll repeat myself again:

 

"It's always about presentation." One hundred percent.

 

Are you a dead guy who lost his girlfriend or are you a shambling corpse that was denied eternal rest because of unfinished business?

 

Are you a rich pretty gal noble or are you a incredibly narcissistic well-off lady with daddy issues and a habit of cuttin' your 'enemies'

 

Are you a catboy ninja or a... eh, someone will figure the rest of that out.

 

It is, exactly what you make it. Learns to present things well.

 

disclaimer: don't take my examples are gospel, i don't hate catspeeps, i don't hate anyone. The singularity is coming anyway, you're all fucked.

[Faye]

 

Faye, I heart you, but I have to admit that when I read "Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself." it was a little off-putting.

 

You may not have meant it that way, but for those of us that are being labeled as 'inauthentic' because we're not playing Isghardian Elezen or Ala Mhigan Highlanders, it sort of reads like:

 

"Ultimately, these people want to make characters that please themselves over making characters that are believable and lore-abiding. I'm not saying this is inherently bad or anything and I'll still RP with someone whose character is more about satisfying the player's wants over being a realistic character -- I just don't think it's a good idea."

 

If that's how you actually feel, that's okay. But I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect people might be sore about how they were labeled.

 

Maybe it's worthwhile to say I don't think self-gratification is a bad thing. In the end that's why we all RP, even why we all chat and debate here on the RPC. This is how we spend our time, it's for our own enjoyment. "Self-gratification" was probably not the best term in retrospect given the negative connotation. But I don't believe there's anything wrong with choosing a character you want to play over the lore or anything else. I'm certainly no lore nazi myself--while I try to never "break" it I do frequently "bend," and while it may not be my own practice, if someone wants to RP even something as extreme as a Garlean Miqo'te princess who can shoot lazer beams, screw the lore and let 'em if that's what they have fun with! We're here to have fun, and how lore fits into that "fun" is different for every individual.

 

I also don't believe playing an exception, say a Miqo'te dragoon, is "inauthentic"--it just can be a bit harder to accept and need some extra reasoning behind it to explain it away if it's going to make sense given the game's lore. It's certainly not lore-breaking or "wrong," just harder to believe at face value without full context given.

[Flashhelix]

Well, I can't claim all the credit. I was given some excellent models in the thread. Standing on the shoulders of giants and so-forth.

 

It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, really

[111]

I want to bring back Natalie Mcbeef from the dead just so I can have people be mad at me for Lore things again.

[ChewableMorphine]

I think the reason that catdrg gets so much scrutiny is because we know that Ishgard is xenophobic as fuck, and that Dragoons are a symbol of their nation's might.

 

Of all the things that are symbolic of the nation of Ishgard, few are more recognized than the dragoon.

 

Hm. This is gonna get reeeaaal awkward as I show my lack of world culture.

 

Real-world France has a reputation for being similarly xenophobic. Preliminary glances at wikipedia of all places gives us this link detailing an "award" given out to prominent French folks who embrace - gasp! - the English language. It's similar to the Razzie Awards, only instead of being fun at the sake of bad movies, it's mocking someone for not being French enough. It has been brought to my attention, however, that this is far from the prevailing national attitude and is probably not the best example.

 

Similarly, this link discusses how internally, France is also phobic against itself; speaking a dialect or language other than French in school is grounds for punishment.

 

It's not too far-fetched to think that Ishgard would be as accepting to "lesser races" as the French are to fat, cheeseburger eating Americans butchering their language.

 

And then letting that guy join their special forces.

 

Do I wanna pull the eugenics card and make allusions to WW2 SS operatives or let the shitstorm do it's own thing.

 

Ishgard is so bad that Garlemald accepts more immigrants into their special ops, going as far to making one a Legatus, Rhitatyn Sas Arvina.

[Val]

Have we, at any point, considered the possibility that SE said screw the lore and threw a bunch of races in a faction for the sake of variety?

 

Not trying to make any direct claims or anything. Just.. you know. Throwing it out there.

[Faye]

I think I mentioned before, but I can vouch for OP. I'll be the first to admit a few times I came across things they said and thought that this was likely someone I should be careful around because 'shit, they might judge me', and 'maybe i should avoid this person'. Having numerous encounters with several people that share the same opinions of OP, not a single one of them has been a dick to me. In fact, the only people to outright be rude to me, very likely have no clue they were simply because they have their heads too far up their own asses. The opinions aren't the problem, it's the people.

 

There is some legitimately nice people around here, much to my surprise. Helpful and nice at most times. I haven't been snubbed for wanting to RP with someone. It's never been an 'this is our circle of clearly lore-centric only people' and even when I watched someone try to bring their SUPER CATGIRL SNOWFLAKE into the fray, not one of those people were rude about it. They even tried to help them justify it! Spending quite a bit of time trying to figure out ways for it to work, ways to make it fit in with the lore and how strange, the person in question only saw it as an attack!

 

I think this post is really important. We forget that people can have different opinions and still be friends, still be kind, still respect each other, still RP together. "I don't agree with you" does not mean "I hate you."

[Domri Blackblade]

Have we, at any point, considered the possibility that SE said screw the lore and threw a bunch of races in a faction for the sake of variety?

 

Not trying to make any direct claims or anything. Just.. you know. Throwing it out there.

 

... Huh?

[Chris Ganale]

He's saying that there's the possibility that we're thinking about lore three or four times harder than SE did, and that they just set races to groups because they thought it looked good at the time.

[V'aleera]

I'm pretty sure that how Faye put it is quite possibly the most polite way anybody could. It's not believable. How is somebody supposed to put it? Because looking at a character concept that isn't very believable and going "That's not very believable" doesn't exactly constitute a personal attack or passive-aggressive jab at any group.

Qualify "believable". Not "likely". Not "normal". "Believable". Define exactly what that term means in the context of roleplay in a fantasy setting.

[Val]

He's saying that there's the possibility that we're thinking about lore three or four times harder than SE did, and that they just set races to groups because they thought it looked good at the time.

 

Pretty much this.

[Domri Blackblade]

He's saying that there's the possibility that we're thinking about lore three or four times harder than SE did, and that they just set races to groups because they thought it looked good at the time.

 

Isn't that the nature of most fandoms? Star Wars is a big one? The fanbase is a HUGE proponent on a giant mass of that lore. I guarantee you Georgy didn't put in all that thought.

[Val]

He's saying that there's the possibility that we're thinking about lore three or four times harder than SE did, and that they just set races to groups because they thought it looked good at the time.

 

Isn't that the nature of most fandoms? Star Wars is a big one? The fanbase is a HUGE proponent on a giant mass of that lore. I guarantee you Georgy didn't put in all that thought.

 

Definitely. But without any definite truths, as Faye quoted just a moment ago, there's no reason to jump down each other's throats/be annoyed/snipe at people based on things that may or may not be true.

[Chris Ganale]

It is true, and like Star Wars, I typically take the judgment of "I look at the universe my way, and other people can look at the universe their way, and if things line up, great. If not, oh well. But I will get violently defensive when I feel slighted."

[Domri Blackblade]

Definitely. But without any definite truths, as Faye quoted just a moment ago, there's no reason to jump down each other's throats/be annoyed/snipe at people based on things that may or may not be true.

 

No one is jumping down anyone's throat. People are debating.

[Val]

Definitely. But without any definite truths, as Faye quoted just a moment ago, there's no reason to jump down each other's throats/be annoyed/snipe at people based on things that may or may not be true.

 

No one is jumping down anyone's throat. People are debating.

 

...Huh. Well, maybe I've been reading a different thread.