Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations

[cuideag]

I would think that the words "minorities exist" is reason enough to play something that fits outside of those neat little race/nationality boxes.

 

If y'all think that playing outside the norm is cause for dismissing a character as a "special snowflake" then boy howdy are you in for a surprise!

[Aya]

All I really know about is the Lalafellan Doman. :blush:

And his name is Champion Chachan!  (Okay that's not true, but he is the only Doman Lalafel I care about!

[Chris Ganale]

I just took that from something someone else said:

 

We only know for sure that the races in Doma are most likely limited to: garlean Citizens (being predominately Hyur and Elezen of conquered countries and areas. one miqo'te and one lalafell. There was also ONE Roe mentioned who adopted a garlean naming convention. But other than that. Hyur.) and Au ra and Domans (hyurs).

 

I don't actually know if there's more information on it or if it was made up, I just assumed that it was confirmation on there being a Doman Miqo'te. All I really know about is the Lalafellan Doman. :blush:

 

That was in reference to Garlean NPCs in Castrum Centri, not Domans.

[V'aleera]

Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability

I'm not very familiar with any of your characters, or what degrees of thought you have put into each. As such, I am in no position to judge whether your characters are "believable".

 

That you have taken the time to gain such an understanding of my own character, and of the thought and work I have put into her, is immensely flattering.

[Chris Ganale]

I'm not very familiar with any of your characters, or what degrees of thought you have put into each. As such, I am in no position to judge whether your characters are "believable".

 

That you have taken the time to gain such an understanding of my own character, and of the thought and work I have put into her, is immensely flattering.

 

Having read your character sheet through a time or two, looks good to me.

[Faye]

Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability

I'm not very familiar with any of your characters, or what degrees of thought you have put into each. As such, I am in no position to judge whether your characters are "believable".

 

That you have taken the time to gain such an understanding of my own character, and of the thought and work I have put into her, is immensely flattering.

 

Erm... please tell me where in my post I said your name or directed anything at you? I have no idea who you even are. Therefore, I hate to disappoint, but I've put no time into your character.

[Khadan]

I find the propensity of those who are quickest to judge and dismiss the "Why's" of these issues are typically those most likely to engage in what they decry. Projection is a big problem in the more immature/inexperienced creative writing/roleplaying crowd.

 

That being said, there are cases where making a character "over the top" is sometimes not even noticed until hindsight is activated by which point it's often perceived as 'too late to change it'. Alternately some people choose to double down and dig in their heels, etc.

 

I like to stress often that in addition to my original post here in the previous page where I describe others reacting to your character's presence if they are anomalous, that taking a step back from your character(s) and reevaluating them is oftentimes a good idea. Skepticism is the healthiest form of mental exercise you can engage in and I advocate it regularly.

[Michikyou]

We have 0 confirmation that there are even Miqo'te in other countries but this one.  We only know for sure that the races in Doma are most likely limited to: garlean Citizens (being predominately Hyur and Elezen of conquered countries and areas. one miqo'te and one lalafell. There was also ONE Roe mentioned who adopted a garlean naming convention. But other than that. Hyur.) and Au ra and Domans (hyurs).  I'm not saying you cant be whatever you want, I'm just saying the integrity of the lore is at stake when you move too far away from what we have confirmation of.

 

Supra-late reply but I've been at work all day.

 

Presumably the one miqo and one lala you refer to is from the instanced version of Castrum Centri? That's good that you're aware of that one, but have you paid attention to the assortment of Garlean enemies that come up in duties post-2.4? And in the NIN questline in particular. I saw more miqo Garleans in those instances than I did of the other races.

 

I would find it more pleasurable that the miqo'te we find in the garlean questline after NIN is more likely to be a member that was taken and brainwashed from the castrum (thats still untouched) in the shroud. based on her fur she is probably a keeper. And keepers are known for hailing predominately from the twelveswood. 

 

and aye, I was referencing the lalafell from Castrum who had a fellow officer crush on her when you do the quest. 

Apart from that i've only seen an overwhelming majority of garleans be Hyurian and Elezen in race.

 

 

[Chris Ganale]

Again, the fights post 2.4, such as in North Than vs. the Ivy and the sapper teams trying to blow up the processing plant. Healthy amounts of miqo and roe in both groups.

[cuideag]

Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability

I'm not very familiar with any of your characters, or what degrees of thought you have put into each. As such, I am in no position to judge whether your characters are "believable".

 

That you have taken the time to gain such an understanding of my own character, and of the thought and work I have put into her, is immensely flattering.

 

Erm... please tell me where in my post I said your name or directed anything at you? I have no idea who you even are. Therefore, I hate to disappoint, but I've put no time into your character.

 

Are you surprised that someone relevant to this thread might be annoyed at your blanket dismissal of their character as something that isn't "believable?"

[Michikyou]

Again, the fights post 2.4, such as in North Than vs. the Ivy and the sapper teams trying to blow up the processing plant. Healthy amounts of miqo and roe in both groups.

But, with how much of Eorzea these people did invade. isn't is -more- likely that they were Eorzean, turned garlean then turned dead?

 

._. we know that Garleans brainwash their captives into following them.

[Chris Ganale]

Not invalid, but consider this. The majority of Garlean NPCs you see in the NIN questline are of their shinobi corps. Given that they had been active about a month or so in Eorzea by the time of the NIN quests, and had plenty of miqo's in their ranks, doesn't it logically follow to assume that they got them from conquered Doma?

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Again, the fights post 2.4, such as in North Than vs. the Ivy and the sapper teams trying to blow up the processing plant. Healthy amounts of miqo and roe in both groups.

But, with how much of Eorzea these people did invade. isn't is -more- likely that they were Eorzean, turned garlean then turned dead?

 

._. we know that Garleans brainwash their captives into following them.

 

Hey, hey! We prefer "polite and delicate re-education to our ideals". /slightlyjoking

 

I'd imagine a fair number of Garleans honestly think they're doing the right thing" or "helping" the people they conquer.

[Tiergan]

Personally speaking, if someone can find at least one example of a race/nation combination in-game, I'm usually okay with it. Even if not - if someone can spin a decent, plausible narrative on why the're an unusual combination, I'll roll with that too.

 

Worst comes to worst - I don't agree with them and we just don't wind up RPing together all that much, but there's plenty of other roleplayers in the community for us to choose from so it's not really a huge loss for either of us. I'll play with the people my RP values align with, and they can play with theirs.

 

In regards to the whole "Authentic Ala Mhigans should be Highlander" bit:

 

For my part, I was part of the initial 1.0 crowd. I was playing FFXIV back in the beta when I was raging at SE for making the least intuitive cumbersome mind-numbingly awful UI/controls/etc I'd ever seen in an MMO - and doing jack all to fix it because they were really only using the US beta test to stress-test the servers rather than get actual feedback.

 

My one and only character back then was Lurial because I had played a mithra with the same first name and appearance in FFXI, and I wanted to repeat it just for nostalgia purposes. I decided upon making her Ala Mhigan, because at the time, being a miqo'te Ala Mhigan refugee wasn't really a big deal. At least not to anyone I RPed with back then - and I was literally in an all Ala Mhigan 'guild'.

 

As Sounsyy pointed out, there were plenty of examples in 1.0 of Ala Mhigans of various races, from midlanders to roegadyns to lalafell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfxBo5lQ97s

 

Then there's J'moldva - the Hellfire Phoenix - the Ala Mhigan miqo'te champion Sounsyy mentioned from the 1.0 Gladiator quests.

 

When 2.0 came out, we got a whole influx of new folks who weren't able to experience all of the things in the 1.0 storyline. Because of this, I get why most folks would initially quirk a brow at "Ala Mhigan" and "miqo'te" being next to each other in the same sentence. The majority of Ala Mhigans seen in 2.0 are both highlander and midlander hyur with a smattering of roegadyns.

 

That said - none of that lore from 1.0 just evaporated. The Hellfire Phoenix is still in the game and even shows up in the Blacksmithing quest-chain. She has a specific breed of Ala Mhigan fighting fish named after her - The Moldva ("This Ala Mhigan fighting fish has never known defeat, and for this remarkable feat folk have named it for the celebrated gladiator.") And there are roegadyns IN little Ala Mhigo dressed in a way that implies they're also Ala Mhigan refugees and not visiting adventurers. Minfillia - as annoying as she is - is Ala Mhigan despite being a midlander.

 

It's admittedly a little frustrating that Sounsyy and other folks have presented this information before, yet some people still harp on about how it's 'not authentic' to play anything other than a highlander if you're Ala Mhigan - even with game lore staring them in the face.

 

What I feel this actually boils down to is frustration with the miqo'te race and miqo'te players period. And honestly? I get it. We're goddamn everywhere. You can't throw a rock in Ul'dah without hitting a scantily clad cat person. And because there's such a massive pool of miqo'te players in comparison to the other races, there's also a proportionally larger pool of shitty ones, ones that do nothing but dump you with unsolicited ERP requests, and ones that are so ridiculously over-the-top and lore-breaking that you can't help but roll your eyes so far back you can see your brain.

 

It might even be annoying for some folks to see a miqo'te for every single character type and backstory known to man -- from book worm scientists to blood-crazed gladiators, to erudite mages to Ishgardian knights and Ala Mhigan refugees. There are ones that RP really unorthodox concepts really well, but chances are, you're probably going to remember the ones who pull it off really horribly a lot more clearly. We've all got a story about that 'one really weird creepy miqo'te' player who made you really bloody uncomfortable in RP.

 

However, the sheer number of miqo'te players and how irritating it might be that there's a miqo'te for basically everything doesn't invalidate how 'authentic' it is for someone to play a certain character type if the game itself has provided a precedent for it.

[Michikyou]

Not invalid, but consider this. The majority of Garlean NPCs you see in the NIN questline are of their shinobi corps. Given that they had been active about a month or so in Eorzea by the time of the NIN quests, and had plenty of miqo's in their ranks, doesn't it logically follow to assume that they got them from conquered Doma?

We know that Doma had been vassaled to garlemald for around ten years (if not longer) before the revolt and razing. However - the miqo'te seen in storyline - I don't recall them themselves being Ninja or even using weapons similarly. For the empire - if I were in theri shoes it would be easier to source troops to supply the specialist troops in the story - from the castum in shroud. Which, everyone knows, is in Eorzea.

 

I would however call it a stretch if your point is to say that other city states developed 'class' technology exactly mirroring another.

Most of the garleans I recall from the story (its been a while. Forgive me) are notably from this list:

 

• Imperial Bestiarius (Lancer)
  
• Imperial Centurion (No Class/Gunblade)
  
• Imperial Funditor (Archer)
  
• Imperial Hastatus (Lancer)
  
• Imperial Imaginifer (Thaumaturge)
  
• Imperial Hoplomachus (Gladiator)
  
• Imperial Myrmillo (Marauder)
  
• Imperial Pilus Prior (No Class/Gunblade; event invasion boss)
  
• Imperial Primus Ordinarius (No Class/Gunblade)
  
• Imperial Juggernaut
  
• Imperial Retiarius (Lancer)
  
• Imperial Sagittarius (Archer)
  
• Imperial Secutor (Pugilist)
  
• Imperial Signifer (Thaumaturge)
  
• Imperial Speculator (Conjurer)
  
• Imperial Triarius (Gladiator)
  
• Imperial Veles (Pugilist)
  
• Imperial War Hound
  
• Magitek Vanguard
   
  >< I don't think i've seen a 'Imperial blurhblurhclasshereblurh' yet.
  

[Chris Ganale]

No, I'm talking about the Imperial shadows you fight various times over the course of the NIN quests. I remember there being miqo's because I do a little sadface every time I have to kill a catgirl.

 

But after a while, I got so pissed at that level 40 quest that I was just on a murder'em'all rampage.

[Faye]

Are you surprised that someone relevant to this thread might be annoyed at your blanket dismissal of their character as something that isn't "believable?"

 

Well yes, I am. I don't know why I am, given I'm aware how personally a lot of here take everything, and how differing opinions are often somehow interpreted as an attack on the character of anyone who feels differently. Call it a moment of optimism, I guess.

 

Especially considering...

 

While I wholeheartedly agree with everything said in the initial post....

 

Ultimately, this doesn't really change whether or not I'm going to roleplay with someone or not, because I roleplay with everyone regardless. If someone wants to play a pretty cat and be something, then, well, go ahead! I've heard stories of people being bothered in whispers about lorebreaking by random people not even roleplaying with them, but just in the general area, and I really want to keep my name far from that sort of behavior. In the face of the above exceptions, my character will react accordingly, but otherwise? I still love all of you!

 

....which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone...

 

But let's just ignore that part and focus on the bits of the post that we can yell about.

[Michikyou]

Lets get back on topic and just ignore the filibustering. What matters is the integrity of the argument!

[Michikyou]

No, I'm talking about the Imperial shadows you fight various times over the course of the NIN quests. I remember there being miqo's because I do a little sadface every time I have to kill a catgirl.

 

But after a while, I got so pissed at that level 40 quest that I was just on a murder'em'all rampage.

 

If so, it would only prove that -garlemald- has Miqo'te. In my head cannon, I expect they aren't common at all in Doma or outside this mainland. Remember, Doman's aren't even used to Chocobo's (stupid horsebirds).

 

If anyone can grab a screenie of those, i'd love to see - I was certain that in the Shinobi quests the other people accompanying him are usually thaumaturges and other fighters - not all Shinobi as the big bad guy Kurasu? Karasu? Crow (in japanese) is the main bad focus of evil ninjaness..

[Chris Ganale]

Well, different strokes, I guess. As was said up-thread somewhere, given that Doma has been heavily trading with Limsa for years and years, and Limsa has a large enclave of miqo's, it doesn't strike me as at all odd that there would be miqo's in Doma. Any sort of majority? No. But enough to justify having one as a character.

[Ette]

I mean once more for me it just boils down to: Who cares?

 

While I stick closer to lore in this setting there ARE things that are plausible if not rare and I’ve taken interest in inside other settings. Like. . . I don’t roleplay  to impress people with how staggeringly lore friendly my characters are. I roleplay to have fun. So if I have to choose between something that gets me excited to write about and something I enjoy or appeasing internet strangers who I wouldn’t have played with anyway I’m just. . . Gonna choose the former?

 

And as someone who isn’t playing anything too lore bendy at the moment I would much rather play with say, a Roegadyn dragoon than someone who is playing an Elezen archer if the former is more fun and engaging.

 

TL;DR

“Because it’s fun.” I say as I shrug a whole lot.

[Michikyou]

Well, different strokes, I guess. As was said up-thread somewhere, given that Doma has been heavily trading with Limsa for years and years, and Limsa has a large enclave of miqo's, it doesn't strike me as at all odd that there would be miqo's in Doma. Any sort of majority? No. But enough to justify having one as a character.

 

Well, we know that Doma is a SMALL island nation. Probably around the size of my own country. We know they exported exotic fruits and were conquered by the empire. Also the fact their nation is based lore-wise (confirmed by naoki P) on japan makes it very irregular for me to believe that the doman people would accept any others outside the two majority race apart from force.

 

Because it took forever until Japan accepted anything from anyone.

[cuideag]

While I wholeheartedly agree with everything said in the initial post, I believe we all already know why people do this--people want to have their cake and eat it, too. Why not be a super cool and strong Ishgardian dragoon and be a sexy cat boy/girl (which is why it's always Miqo'te...)?

 

Oops.

 

Patronizing meme featuring minorities used in a thread about minorities.

 

Oops.

 

Ultimately it's just folks choosing self-gratification over believability, which as the OP stated isn't inherently bad and doesn't mean I won't RP with anyone, I just may not always think it's the best decision, so I try to shy away from it myself.

 

Oops.

 

One okay thing doesn't dismiss a whole post full of salt.

[Chris Ganale]

Not true. The Dutch and Portuguese extensively traded with feudal-era Japan, and notable daimyo such as Oda Nobunaga and Date Masamune were all about foreign technology, even to the point that Date was so friendly to foreigners he established dialogue with the Pope, launched Japan's first across-the-world naval expedition, and invited Christians to practice, preach, and live in his territories.

 

And there were at least three well-known instances of foreigners actually becoming samurai, but those mostly took place in the Tokugawa shogunate and I'd have to look them up to give proper details on them.

 

While it is true that the Dutch and Portuguese were largely limited to one tiny little fort in Tokyo Bay, that doesn't change the fact that they were there. It wasn't, in fact, until mid-to-late Tokugawa shogunate that Japan went the route of "ALL GAIJIN BAD :<<< WE NO LYKE U HEER"

 

 

Apologies for the real-world loredump, Senogku era history is a bit of an amateur hobby of mine.

[Edda]

Holy shit these threads today. Makin' some waves.

 

If it's apparent some of us have so much of a problem with how other people roleplay, maybe we should focus our combined energies into petitioning Square Enix to remove the cap on our blacklists.