Reasoning for irregular race/nationality combinations

[Aife]

Lacey is a Garlean ninja. She's a pretty white girl. People didn't like it until lore backed me up saying the Garlean Empire has ninja's in its ranks and trained Garleans in the secrets of the shinobi. It's likely if there are Samurai in the Garlean Empire's ranks who did similar. That is if there are Samurai's in Doma, after all they haven't confirmed there is yet.

[Wymsical]

I wish I could word it better. To me, saying that people should only role-play what is considered "normal" for that race is troubling. How do you establish what is normal? You can't really, because even considering things like culture, people are just people. When you try to generalize and fit everyone in neat little boxes, it's a souring experience even in role-play. Not on an IC level but on a meta level. When I played WoW, the community I was in was very insistent on playing the races according to the stereotype. If you wanted to play a bloodthirsty tauren or a flower-picking orc you would get a lot of flak for that.

 

Actually, I think a better way to phrase the complaint against 'normal' is not the world 'normal' at all. It's 'common' or 'average'. It applies to real-life things as well. The majority isn't 'normal', persay, it's just 'common', the literal majority. To that end, think of writing a roleplay character (or any character, really) as a matter of addition. The more unusual factors (or really, any factors in general), the higher that end number turns out. And sometimes roleplayers can have a knee-jerk reaction to a character with a particularly large mental number because it's often used as a shortcut to be interesting.

 

Let's go through that infamous example, the Miqo'te-Ishgardian dragoon. Let's make them a male Seeker too, just to ramp it up a little.

 

So we have Miqo'te + male + Seeker + Ishgardian + lancer + dragoon (yes, lancer and dragoon are two entries). 

 

Breaking it down, Miqo'te have very particular tribal lore that makes them a little less common to see around, particularly male Seekers and female Keepers. So first, you have to explain why that male Seeker is no longer in his tribe - or was never part of one to begin with even with the Miqo'te social structures. There's already a lot of factors to bear in mind. To continue on, now you have the issues between Ishgardians and others and estimating how common your particular race would be (using NPCs as a general statistic). Lancer isn't a particularly unique factor, it's just a matter of training, who would train them, ect, how many years they've put into it. Then we have to add on dragoon, because it's a very particular, iconic and significant practice with ample lore behind it. The odds of getting training in that study, again how many years they've put into it, how skilled they are... let's not even think about any other additions they might have, like particularly traumatic backstories, how old they are, so on and so forth. That's a lot of factors to be woven together into a coherent, believable whole.

 

That's not to say what I just said is impossible or should be frowned upon, just the opposite. 

 

Many people see it as a 'you could, but why would you?' sort of question and it's up to the roleplayer to give an adequate and interesting answer to it. 

 

If you're just racking up that number without much thought, planning or interest in the lore behind it, at the end it might seem like a careless attempt at making yourself unique and special without actually being interesting. Others can often resent this attitude (or the appearance of it) and that's why you see people protesting 'but keep the lore in mind!' or 'but that's not common at all!' because of half-baked characters that reel off a ridiculously complex backstory or design and are all the more uninteresting for it. Sometimes they expect to be the center of attention or simply just want to be extra special while having a cardboard personality.

 

The bottom line is, many - if not most - ideas can be done, and done well. It's up to you to justify your character design in a fashion that's engaging and interesting - both for you and those you interact with, ideally while keeping the tone and lore of the world for immersion purposes. Roleplaying is a community effort, after all.

 

oh god that looked like less blather when I wrote it

[Sounsyy]

I don't think the OP's real life comparisons meant--let's take the samurai one for example--that only Japanese people can be samurai and no other races are allowed, or that Japanese people make for better samurai, etc. Rather, when people first come up with their character, they start with the idea of an archetype. Well, I guess I can't speak for others--that's how it usually works for me, at least. So when the idea "samurai!" pops into someone's head for a character, it seems a little... counter-intuitive, I guess is the best way to put it, to then make said samurai character a white guy, at least if it's for no reason more than "I prefer to play a white guy." In fact, I'd argue that where real life races are concerned, that can be seem just as (if not more) racist--to change the respective race of a member of some discipline that belongs to another culture, especially when whitewashing or changing from a minority to a majority--than to say "all samurai should be Japanese."

 

What you've described is essentially cultural appropriation, and yes, I would agree it is quite wrong.

 

However, the issue I take with the OP is that the comparisons in game are not accurate to begin with. Ala Mhigo is not all Highlander, as I detailed in this earlier post quite extensively. Nor are all Ishgardians Elezen/Midlander. Nor are all Domans Midlander. Nor are all Ul'dahns Lalafellin despite a significant population of these majority races being presented to us in game. There are native Roegadyn NPCs in Gridania. There are multiple Elezen hailing from Limsa Lominsa. YET, the egregious misconception that there are race locks persists despite evidence presented to the contrary. One Doman Lalafell is labeled an "exception" whereas one Doman Au Ra is taken as part of the norm. Why? One Ishgardian Miqo'te is the "exception" but the Temple Knight's second-in-command is Garlean. No one bats an eye, why?

 

 

A more accurate RL comparison is to look at Hollywood Films that are set in 1800s England, and when the director is asked why there are no PoC in the film, they reply with something along the lines of "We're trying to keep it true to the time period." As if blacks, asians, or other non-white minorities did not exist in England at the time - which is outrageous.

 

What the OP has said, essentially, is that because my character's race (Miqo'te) is not apart of the Ala Mhigan majority race, that makes her "inauthentic." She is not "true to the setting/time period." Despite one of Ala Mhigo's greatest heroines in lore being... Miqo'te.

[Michikyou]

I wish I could word it better. To me, saying that people should only role-play what is considered "normal" for that race is troubling. How do you establish what is normal? You can't really, because even considering things like culture, people are just people. When you try to generalize and fit everyone in neat little boxes, it's a souring experience even in role-play. Not on an IC level but on a meta level. When I played WoW, the community I was in was very insistent on playing the races according to the stereotype. If you wanted to play a bloodthirsty tauren or a flower-picking orc you would get a lot of flak for that.

 

Actually, I think a better way to phrase the complaint against 'normal' is not the world 'normal' at all. It's 'common' or 'average'. It applies to real-life things as well. The majority isn't 'normal', persay, it's just 'common', the literal majority. To that end, think of writing a roleplay character (or any character, really) as a matter of addition. The more unusual factors (or really, any factors in general), the higher that end number turns out. And sometimes roleplayers can have a knee-jerk reaction to a character with a particularly large mental number because it's often used as a shortcut to be interesting.

 

Let's go through that infamous example, the Miqo'te-Ishgardian dragoon. Let's make them a male Seeker too, just to ramp it up a little.

 

So we have Miqo'te + male + Seeker + Ishgardian + lancer + dragoon (yes, lancer and dragoon are two entries). 

 

Breaking it down, Miqo'te have very particular tribal lore that makes them a little less common to see around, particularly male Seekers and female Keepers. So first, you have to explain why that male Seeker is no longer in his tribe - or was never part of one to begin with even with the Miqo'te social structures. There's already a lot of factors to bear in mind. To continue on, now you have the issues between Ishgardians and others and estimating how common your particular race would be (using NPCs as a general statistic). Lancer isn't a particularly unique factor, it's just a matter of training, who would train them, ect, how many years they've put into it. Then we have to add on dragoon, because it's a very particular, iconic and significant practice with ample lore behind it. The odds of getting training in that study, again how many years they've put into it, how skilled they are... let's not even think about any other additions they might have, like particularly traumatic backstories, how old they are, so on and so forth. That's a lot of factors to be woven together into a coherent, believable whole.

 

That's not to say what I just said is impossible or should be frowned upon, just the opposite. 

 

Many people see it as a 'you could, but why would you?' sort of question and it's up to the roleplayer to give an adequate and interesting answer to it. 

 

If you're just racking up that number without much thought, planning or interest in the lore behind it, at the end it might seem like a careless attempt at making yourself unique and special without actually being interesting. Others can often resent this attitude (or the appearance of it) and that's why you see people protesting 'but keep the lore in mind!' or 'but that's not common at all!' because of half-baked characters that reel off a ridiculously complex backstory or design and are all the more uninteresting for it. Sometimes they expect to be the center of attention or simply just want to be extra special while having a cardboard personality.

 

The bottom line is, many - if not most - ideas can be done, and done well. It's up to you to justify your character design in a fashion that's engaging and interesting - both for you and those you interact with, ideally while keeping the tone and lore of the world for immersion purposes. Roleplaying is a community effort, after all.

 

oh god that looked like less blather when I wrote it

Edit edit:

because the first edit ate my post. grr.

 

This is a well put argument however i've found not many people actually research the lore before diving into the game. Not all of the lore is accessible in any one place and the stuff that is isn't readily updated as it is needed to be.

 

Most people will play the race they want to play instead of researching what is more the norm.

 

I'm all for updating the RPC wikipedia with information but gathering it in the firstplace is difficult.

[Dravus]

I value plausibility above all else when it comes to role-play. If I feel as though a character is just a bizarre amalgamation of various poorly thought out ideas stacked on top of one another then I lose interest pretty fast and don't feel compelled to interact with that particular individual.

 

In my opinion more role-players need to be satisfied with creating a character that has one or two unique traits instead of pushing the number of special tendencies to ridiculous levels.

 

Eyebrows will quite obviously be raised if someone's character is a half-breed and has the echo and is well connected to various major organisations/key individuals within the lore whilst also being a man hating lesbian and described as beautiful and charismatic.

 

A bit of an extreme example, perhaps, but role-play is a group activity for the most part. Designing a character that doesn't feel like a giant gimmick is important if one values longevity and development.

[Tiergan]

What the OP has said, essentially, is that because my character's race (Miqo'te) is not apart of the Ala Mhigan majority race, that makes her "inauthentic." She is not "true to the setting/time period." Despite one of Ala Mhigo's greatest heroines in lore being... Miqo'te.

 

This is what grates on my nerves as well. If there was zero precedent in the game for it, I'd understand why it would be hard to swallow - but there are examples of pretty much every race also being Ala Mhigan even if they were a much smaller portion of the city's population.

 

Even if we were to consider that maybe SE just said 'eh, whatevs' and tossed in a few random minor 'lore-breaking' NPCs in some of the cutscenes just to add more diversity - there's the fact that a large chunk of the gladiator quest-chain was devoted to J'moldva in 1.0. It's a lot less likely that they'd have made an NPC so central to that quest-chain a figure that directly contradicts their own lore.

 

And then put her in the 2.0 version of the game.

 

And then name an Ala Mhigan fighting fish after her.

 

That's essentially SE confirming twice that "Yeah, there's a miqo'te Ala Mhigan champion." The fact that no NPC in either 1.0 or 2.0 ever made a huge deal about the fact that she was both miqo'te and Ala Mhigan suggests it wasn't really all that surprising for her to be both either.

[ShoggMommy]

So why not play an Elezen? You can play the exception, fine, but is there a reason you did not pick the main race? That is the question I am putting forward! 

 

I'm just going to touch on this one question here. 

The reason why I have a lancer miqo'te? Because back in beta I rolled my miqo'te boy as a lancer because I do like the lancer class. 

 

Why not Elezen? 

I do -not- like the proportions. I'm sorry but I think they're off visually, I do not find them to be something I can tolerate on an artistic level. Boy have I tried to like them, but I just can't get into them. I know some people may like it, and that's all well and fine. I don't have a problem with whatever people play. Everyone has their own views. But that's the reason why I won't roll an Elezen. 

 

I could roll a hyur; but I rarely play human-based classes only because I'm a human IRL. I enjoy fantasy races more. It's just my preference. I don't play myself as a character or anything, but I do prefer to have a fantastical race.

 

Does it bend lore? Probably a bit. But I've seen much worse bent lore-wise. 

There are a lot of miqo'te around; and I realized that after I took a break... Man are there a lot of miqo'tes... BUT. I'm not going to let that ruin my enjoyment of the race. 

 

It's sort of like; "Oh man, everyone loves that series now and the fans have mainstreamed it, so I'm not going to watch it anymore!". Just because something has become popular isn't going to be the changing point for my like of a race. 

 

I've always liked the miqo'te even from when I played 1.0, and I'll continue to play them very likely. Just as I'll every so often play a Roe-female as I like them as well, a lot. 

 

So yes. I rolled a lancer-miqo'te because I -like- the lancer class and I -like- miqo'te (which I have heavily read into lore wise). If people don't want to rp with me because one of my tertiary characters is a miqo'te-lancer then so be it. When I did rp Kai'to more than I do now I never ran into rude people demanding to know why I'm playing something that wasn't in-the-vein. And if I got a rude message I'd honestly just ignore it and continue to play what I enjoy.

 

This being said I -do- rp straight-on the mark characters as well. My main, an alchemist; while she is miqo'te she is a traditionally based tribal miqo'te.

 

 

To add on; if for some reason I wish to make Kai'to a dragoon that will be decided later on with heavy reading into lore and consideration of how to make it plausible. For now though, the kid's a lancer and one that is learning still.

[Yssen]

I don't think the OP's real life comparisons meant--let's take the samurai one for example--that only Japanese people can be samurai and no other races are allowed, or that Japanese people make for better samurai, etc. Rather, when people first come up with their character, they start with the idea of an archetype. Well, I guess I can't speak for others--that's how it usually works for me, at least. So when the idea "samurai!" pops into someone's head for a character, it seems a little... counter-intuitive, I guess is the best way to put it, to then make said samurai character a white guy, at least if it's for no reason more than "I prefer to play a white guy." In fact, I'd argue that where real life races are concerned, that can be seem just as (if not more) racist--to change the respective race of a member of some discipline that belongs to another culture, especially when whitewashing or changing from a minority to a majority--than to say "all samurai should be Japanese."

 

What you've described is essentially cultural appropriation, and yes, I would agree it is quite wrong.

 

However, the issue I take with the OP is that the comparisons in game are not accurate to begin with. Ala Mhigo is not all Highlander, as I detailed in this earlier post quite extensively. Nor are all Ishgardians Elezen/Midlander. Nor are all Domans Midlander. Nor are all Ul'dahns Lalafellin despite a significant population of these majority races being presented to us in game. There are native Roegadyn NPCs in Gridania. There are multiple Elezen hailing from Limsa Lominsa. YET, the egregious misconception that there are race locks persists despite evidence presented to the contrary. One Doman Lalafell is labeled an "exception" whereas one Doman Au Ra is taken as part of the norm. Why? One Ishgardian Miqo'te is the "exception" but the Temple Knight's second-in-command is Garlean. No one bats an eye, why?

 

 

A more accurate RL comparison is to look at Hollywood Films that are set in 1800s England, and when the director is asked why there are no PoC in the film, they reply with something along the lines of "We're trying to keep it true to the time period." As if blacks, asians, or other non-white minorities did not exist in England at the time - which is outrageous.

 

What the OP has said, essentially, is that because my character's race (Miqo'te) is not apart of the Ala Mhigan majority race, that makes her "inauthentic." She is not "true to the setting/time period." Despite one of Ala Mhigo's greatest heroines in lore being... Miqo'te.

 

This is correct.

 

We are dealing with a lot of assumption and educated guessing when it comes to Ishgard. None of us have been there, and won't be there until June. While there is nothing wrong with an educated guess, throwing up a barrier to explain how someone is "doing it wrong" based on assumption and such IS wrong. 

 

Lets take a little speculative lore walk. 

 

We know that after the fall of Gelmorra some of the Duskwight Elezen went to Ishgard to seek refuge. They did this because of hostility, ire, and violence thrown their way by the Gridanians. As close off as Ishgardian culture was, it was a better option than staying in the Black Shroud. Now, Keepers of the Moon also made the Black Shround their home and faced the exact same ire, violence, and hostility as the Duskwights. It is not too far fetched to think that there would be some Keepers in the way back past who made the same decision as some Duskwights did. A few generations of a Keeper population living in Ishgard later, and you probably have some Keeper Miqo'te Dragoons.

 

Granted, the above is all speculation. It is still fairly reasonable speculation, however. We need to remember that the City States are more diverse than we think. Prior to the fall of Ala Mhigo, there were constant wars between City States over territory. Displaced refugees would have migrated and settled constantly, creating the diversity we now see. While a City State may have been founded by X race, that does not mean that X race is the only race that has populated a City State over the centuries.

 

Yar.

[ArmachiA]

While I like plausibility in my roleplay and I, of course, like to be lore compliant, honestly if it's within the bounds of lore and well explained I probably won't mind.

 

Here's the thing for me:

 

"I'm a Miqote Dragoon because " I won't even bat an eye.

 

"I'm a Miqote Dragoon for just... uhh... cuz." Will make me dubious of your character but will still not make me not roleplay with you.

 

I like plausibility for ME personally - my characters are deeply rooted in what could and could not be possible, taking rather ordinary, average characters and thrusting them into the extraordinary. That's really fun and interesting -for me-.

 

I don't expect that to be fun and interesting for all people. As long as you aren't lore breaking, and have a well thought out character, the only thing that's going to matter to me is if your Miqote Dragoon is actually just... interesting to talk to.

 

And that's my take on it.

[ShoggMommy]

"I'm a Miqote Dragoon because " I won't even bat an eye.

 

"I'm a Miqote Dragoon for just... uhh... cuz." Will make me dubious of your character but will still not make me not roleplay with you.

 

I don't expect that to be fun and interesting for all people. As long as you aren't lore breaking, and have a well thought out character, the only thing that's going to matter to me is if your Miqote Dragoon is actually just... interesting to talk to.

 

 

Exactly, and very well said. (Sorry for snipping, just wanted to make the post shorter  ) 

And those are my thoughts along the lines as well. If you are going to make a miqo'te-dragoon; have a plausible, well thought out story. 

 

I chose the two personally because I like the class and race, but that doesn't mean I, or anyone should slack off and say "Uh... cuz..." and leave it at that. But it is a good starting point. We do find ourselves interested in particular races, classes etc. 

 

I honestly haven't played Kai'to in quite some time so I forget a lot of his story (I literally stopped playing XIV for quite a while). However when I went in as a lancer; I expected him to learn throughout his play. If my characters are young I tend to like to play them from apprenticeship+ because it gives me a lot of room to round the character. -Hence why he isn't a dragoon now, and if he is in the future; then I would read further into the lore than I currently have.

[Kellach Woods]

Like seriously the only place that wouldn't be plausible to have ALL the races is Gridania due to how strict the Elementals are, and even then... You have everything but Roes in 2.0.

 

People just wanna hate to hate is what I've seen in this thread. SMH. Pretty sure if I looked far enough I could take a shit on every single character in this thread because nothing is absolutely lore-proof. Since, you know IT'S STILL BEING WRITTEN and IT CAN'T COVER EVERYTHING.

[Milly]

I just had a thought. Is it ever explicitly stated that that Ishgardians are natively Elezen and don't like, or natively include, Miqo'te and/or Lalafell...? Because I don't personally remember race ever being brought up in regards to any of the nations, not even for Gridania.

 

Instead what's stated is they don't like 'outsiders' and it seems as a player base we've made an assumption that that means 'race' when actually... it just means people who aren't from Ishgard/Gridania. It doesn't matter if you're Elezen, Roe, Hyur if you're not from Ishgard they don't like you. Are we just concluding that there's no Miqo'te Ishgardians because we've not had it confirmed yet?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the best memory, I just get a feeling there's some assumption about race discrimination (as I mentioned earlier in the thread this is more common in other games such as XI) when, as far as I recall, race is rarely if ever brought up as being an issue. It's one of the things I like about this game.

 

Also,

 

I've never unlocked Dragoon so I might sound quite stupid but why is a Miqo'te Dragoon consistently being cited as implausible? The game lets you do it, so how is it explained when you unlock it? You don't need to go to Ishgard to be a Dragoon I'd have thought..?

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I just had a thought. Is it ever explicitly stated that that Ishgardians are natively Elezen and Hyurs and don't like, or natively include, Miqo'te and/or Lalafell...? Because I don't personally remember race ever being brought up in regards to any of the nations, not even for Gridania.

 

Instead what's stated is they don't like 'outsiders' and it seems as a player base we've made an assumption that that means 'race' when actually... it just means people who aren't from Ishgard/Gridania. It doesn't matter if you're Elezen, Roe, Hyur if you're not from Ishgard they don't like you. Are we just concluding that there's no Miqo'te Ishgardians because we've not had it confirmed yet?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the best memory, I just get a feeling there's some assumption about race discrimination (as I mentioned earlier in the thread this is more common in other games such as XI) when, as far as I recall, race is rarely if ever brought up as being an issue. It's one of the things I like about this game.

 

Also,

 

I've never unlocked Dragoon so I might sound quite stupid but why is a Miqo'te Dragoon consistently being cited as implausible? The game lets you do it, so how is it explained when you unlock it? You don't need to go to Ishgard to be a Dragoon I'd have thought..?

 

All we really know is that Ishgard is primarily Wildwood Elezen and Midlander. And very xenophobic. We haven't actually gotten a "no native Lalafell/Miqo'te/Roegayden" of any sort, which is why there is a lot of ridiculous banter going on in the thread. It cna be summed up as we really have no idea until the city is actually available.

 

But we can't really take anything our main-character does as "normal" because they /are/ the super-special amazing exception to all the rules. (Like how they became the first non-Padjal White Mage since the fall of Amdapor). As such, main-adventurer-cat-person could literally do and become anything. Hell, they can master lifetimes worth of skill in a few weeks, if the player doesn't sleep.

[Gegenji]

I just had a thought. Is it ever explicitly stated that that Ishgardians are natively Elezen and Hyurs and don't like, or natively include, Miqo'te and/or Lalafell...? Because I don't personally remember race ever being brought up in regards to any of the nations, not even for Gridania.

 

...

 

I've never unlocked Dragoon so I might sound quite stupid but why is a Miqo'te Dragoon consistently being cited as implausible? The game lets you do it, so how is it explained when you unlock it? You don't need to go to Ishgard to be a Dragoon I'd have thought..?

 

As has been mentioned, technically none of the races are "native" to Eorzea at all. So none of them are natively Ishgardian. Elezen and Hyur just happen to be the majority. Which makes your point I kinda snipped out for length quite relevant - they are the majority, not the sole occupants of Ishgard. They may hold the highest positions and see themselves as "true" Ishgardians, that doesn't mean there couldn't be some low-class Roegadyn or Miqo'te family in there somewhere struggling to survive the rigors of the caste-based society and racial tensions.

 

Which leads to the second point I kept in. It's only implausible if you consider that there can be no Ishgardian Miqo'te, since the idea of a non-Ishgardian being trained in the Dragoon arts would likely be akin to divulging state secrets. Either you'd have to have someone (or something - since Soul Crystals exist) who is defying the laws of Ishgard to teach a non-Ishgardian the ways of dragonslaying... or they'd have to have been somehow either already a part of Ishgard or somehow accepted into their ranks.

 

The latter being harder to justify due to Ishgard's generally xenophobic nature. Which is a major point. Xenophobia is fear of anything "foreign or strange." If you have a family (or multiple families) of Miqo'te that have been living in Ishgard for years, then they're neither foreign nor strange since they've been there for ages!

[Warren Castille]

I just had a thought. Is it ever explicitly stated that that Ishgardians are natively Elezen and don't like, or natively include, Miqo'te and/or Lalafell...? Because I don't personally remember race ever being brought up in regards to any of the nations, not even for Gridania.

 

Instead what's stated is they don't like 'outsiders' and it seems as a player base we've made an assumption that that means 'race' when actually... it just means people who aren't from Ishgard/Gridania. It doesn't matter if you're Elezen, Roe, Hyur if you're not from Ishgard they don't like you. Are we just concluding that there's no Miqo'te Ishgardians because we've not had it confirmed yet?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the best memory, I just get a feeling there's some assumption about race discrimination (as I mentioned earlier in the thread this is more common in other games such as XI) when, as far as I recall, race is rarely if ever brought up as being an issue. It's one of the things I like about this game.

 

Also,

 

I've never unlocked Dragoon so I might sound quite stupid but why is a Miqo'te Dragoon consistently being cited as implausible? The game lets you do it, so how is it explained when you unlock it? You don't need to go to Ishgard to be a Dragoon I'd have thought..?

 

The assumption comes from every (or nearly, I don't recall) Ishgardian NPC you interact with being an elezen.

 

The reason you don't go to Ishgard to become a dragoon when unlocking the job is because the game paints you as The Chosen One, a rival to the last generations Chosen One. It's very, uh... specific. Even then Ishgard itself doesn't acknowledge you in any capacity.

 

[Milly]

...

Edited July 14, 2020 by Milly

[Warren Castille]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNSXBVIZixc

 

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I guess it just all rotates back to what I said earlier in the thread. Roleplaying is a bit of a paradox because if we all wanted our stories to 'gel' we'd all have to be super bland.

 

Exactly this! There's no way to be 100% compatible with 100% of the community. It's just not simply possible, given RP styles, limits, etc. Instead, I know I'll try to find pople who share my ideas and have similar limits or scope of limits in RP.

 

As others have stated in the thread previously, RP isn't 100% combat. But it is an important part of our characters. Like the real world, a person's strengths and weaknesses shape their character. Brute strength can only get one so far. Unimaginable experience means nothing if one can't even pick up their weapon. All the knowledge in the world is useless if it can't be applied. I think the same goes with our characters.

[Lekka Meyren]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNSXBVIZixc

 

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Yeah the level of discrimination in the ishgardian armed forces is really awful.

 

[Warren Castille]

 

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Yeah the level of discrimination in the ishgardian armed forces is really awful.

 

 

It is! It's hardly diverse at all. And those are just (presumably?) Temple Knights. They're not even on the level of prestige that a Dragoon (presumably) would have.

 

Is it just rendering one model two hundred times for hardware reasons? Or is this a genuine assessment of higher-ranked forces? Next time, on Dragon Ball Z We just don't know until Heavensward. Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

 

...maybe!

[Gegenji]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNSXBVIZixc

 

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

 

Alternately: count how many of them don't have elf ears deforming their little chain helms. I'm pretty sure ALL those soldiers are Elezen. Which could be for reasons ranging from Elezen being the only ones to be allowed in as the See's main guard, the tallest being at the front and the shortest being at the back, or just because they copy-and-pasted the same model to save on time and/or also apply a level of artistic uniformity.

 

... As Warren was quick to point out while I was typing this up after watching the clip. :lol:

[111]

[video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNSXBVIZixc

 

Take a look at those soldiers. Count the tails. It might not mean anything, but it's what we have to work with.

Yeah the level of discrimination in the ishgardian armed forces is really awful.

 

 

Well that is not really indicative. Armies since the dawn of time have often used their tallest members for ceremonies, parades, etc.

 

The US army does it too, all the tallest people are in the front of a formation, so it looks more imposing when It marches by.

 

Ishgard might have had a "You must be this tall to be in the ominous foreshadowing cutscene ceremony."

[V'aleera]

Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

 

...maybe!

Lucia the Radiant would have a word about that.

[Warren Castille]

Right now, it looks unlikely for non-elezen to rise up in the ranks that high.

 

...maybe!

Lucia the Radiant would have a word about that.

 

unlikely=impossible

[Milly]

...

Edited July 14, 2020 by Milly