discussion Your thoughts on jump potions?

[Sophia_Grave]

I don't like the idea of a new player skipping the entire MSQ, but then again, some players don't care about that content, so I don't see the point of forcing them to do it if they just want to do roulettes till their eyes bleed like the rest of us. Plus, I get some work-free alts out of the deal.

 

Of course, if I had my way, new players would go through it at least once, then jump potion to their hearts content on their other non-craft/gather jobs. Or let them jump potion right away, but have them do the quests anyway.

 

I don't know, I'm biased. I just don't want to level my damn alts anymore, and I'm willing to pay :V

[Valence]

I really don't see the point of forcing players to go through it if they don't want to. The main fear is that we would get a legion of lvl60 players popping up with no clue at all how to play their class... Well, it's already the case even without jump potions anyway. Why would you need to do at least once the MSQ to 60? To be knowledgeable about your class? That's moot, the next alt or job you will level up with the jump potion will probably be another one anyway. Except if it's of the same role, you will be as brand as new, especially with a full 60 skillset. So, if not that, what then? To have witnessed the story at least once? Why would you shove that down the throat of people if they don't wanna?

 

The problem is not so much people that don't know how to play their classes (they will learn in time, just like that huge flow of bad DRKs at lvl30 that never tanked in their life when 3.0 released), but the lazy, the idiots and the people willingly refusing to play by the rules. Those, you will get no matter what, and no matter what you do, they will not learn or change.

 

Now then, I heard wow offers trials and challenges to clear before letting their newly jumped players into the wild.

 

But my main fear is that, if we don't get jump potions, we will continue to get that endless trainwreck of people bitching and whining about how long and tedious cutscenes and quests and stuff are. They are toxic to the story itself, since they aren't interested in it. This is a whole different kind of people than just us being dissatisfied with the story, being critical and whatnot. It's about this huge part of players that just don't want to have anything to do with it. If they want out of the story I say, let them do. All the better for us.

[V'aleera]

I don't really care one way or the other. I honestly doubt that a significant portion of new players would actually care to purchase a jump potion if they could. Don't have any evidence for it, but I feel like it's only a narrow section of players who come into the game wanting literally nothing else than to be at max level immediately.

[Teadrinker]

Great for RP, bad for PvE.

 

People complain about 'bad' players enough as it is. Imagine queuing for your roulette and getting this.

 

"Hi guys! Just jumped this Paladin, I have no idea what I'm doing so be patient k lol!"

[Gegenji]

Great for RP, bad for PvE.

 

People complain about 'bad' players enough as it is. Imagine queuing for your roulette and getting this.

 

"Hi guys! Just jumped this Paladin, I have no idea what I'm doing so be patient k lol!"

 

As opposed to someone who is bad at the class, somehow got to 60 anyway, and doesn't say anything? Like the WHM in Titan HM who just sits in Cleric Stance the entire time while spamming Cure IIs? I'd actually welcome someone who was upfront about not knowing how to play their class - that means they might actually listen and take advice.

 

"Okay, you should have an ability called Shield Oath. Click that to turn it on. Now, for groups you want to use Flash to generate aggro along with Circle of Scorn when you have it. Otherwise just stick to your melee combo and you should be good. You have a bunch of defensive cooldowns, feel free to pop those whenever except for Hallowed Ground - that's your panic button. Any questions?"

 

And then we go in and we'd probably do fine. That's what I'd like to think, anyway. :blush:

[Branson Thorne]

My thoughts on jump potions are "I sure hope they're cheap enough as I'll buy them by the dozen"

[Lydia Lightfoot]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned, but, under the current non-jump system, there are hordes and droves of players who can't play their class - I don't really think adding a jump potion is going to make that worse. It might actually make that situation better, because I'd bet real money that a critical reason why we encounter a lot of really bad playing is because players became bored with the class while leveling up and basically just did the bare minimum needed to push through their dailies for the exp. So if they can skip the boring part, maybe they won't have developed lazy habits that become hard to break?

[Lyriell]

I think a classic Jump Potion like the one being used in WoW would be a bad idea. It takes a lot of the charm away from the game and it leads to people never exploring certain parts of the game which is the opposite of what an MMO should deliver.

 

If you never explore the world around you then you also don't really care much about it.

 

Instead what they should do is: Make it so that Main Story Quests are shortened. By that I mean the player would skip all those fetch quests and get much more exp for the quests that actually remain. If done right then even casual players should be able to catch up in a day or two but still get to experience the world around them instead of just buying that potion and sitting on their butt, having no idea of the awesome locations out there.

[Branson Thorne]

It takes a lot of the charm away from the game and it leads to people never exploring certain parts of the game which is the opposite of what an MMO should deliver.

 

If you never explore the world around you then you also don't really care much about it.

 

I would strongly disagree.

 

I think you forget that most all of us here have already cleared the game at least once. And once you've been through it, it's the same garbage again and again. It's no like an RPG where different choices affect the outcome of the ending. So why do I want to keep playing through it?

 

I think your points would be much more valid for players who've not completed the game yet, and not those of us having played since release.

[Lyriell]

It takes a lot of the charm away from the game and it leads to people never exploring certain parts of the game which is the opposite of what an MMO should deliver.

 

If you never explore the world around you then you also don't really care much about it.

 

I would strongly disagree.

 

I think you forget that most all of us here have already cleared the game at least once. And once you've been through it, it's the same garbage again and again. It's no like an RPG where different choices affect the outcome of the ending. So why do I want to keep playing through it?

 

I think your points would be much more valid for players who've not completed the game yet, and not those of us having played since release.

 

That post was aimed at new players. For those that already finished the story once a complete skip would be okay with me. I have dozens of alt characters so I definitely wouldn't complain. But a new player that has seen nothing of the world just completely skipping past it? I think that is not a good idea.

[Valence]

I guess I'm always an odd ball when it comes to RPG tastes. I dislike open worlds (except in MMOs, but in the solo part of MMOs, I hate open worlds too), I loathe exploring for the sake of exploring, and I absolutely hate the very notion of sidequest (and if the sidequests are so awesome, why aren't they in the main story in that case?).

 

I also never replay any game or RPG with choices differently. I always tend to do every time the same choices, the same customization, the same things (which is why I love the 100% jRPG linear models of old). I know it sounds weird, but I always choose what seems to fit the best for me. Added to an obsessional completionist drive, I always end up following the exact same path. So, what makes me replay things? The story and the universe, every time, and the gameplay has to be not too shabby either. So, generally I don't mind going through the same story again, provided the story is great. Though I bet after the 3rd or 4th time, especially in short succession, no matter the story, I would be bored and unwilling to cope with it once again.

 

But my point is that, coming from that perspective and speaking about it with most players, I tend to notice I'm not interested in the same things. I can totally understand why some players would want to jump to the end of something they would consider like a very tedious grind, and get directly to the meat of things (to their eyes). I'm pretty sure less of them would care that much if the story was even greater, with huge cutscenes and awesome hooks, and no boring parts, but you would still get many people just not interested, period. When you kick up a solo RPG and play, you can do it for two things: either the gameplay and the progression/leveling, or either the story. Or both (which is the ideal state of things). But I know a lot of players that do it more for one than the other (and it's not binary either). So, when you start up a MMO, you can actually do it for many things (depending on the content offered). Leveling, RPing, just following the story and cutting the sub afterwards, end-game pve, pvp, crafting, trading, I don't know... Or a combination of things. It can be many things. Hell, some people don't even play MMOs for the multiplayer side of them, however sad that is. Why would you force them through the story, no matter how great to your eyes it is?

 

And I think the problem with most people here is that they seem to assume that their own preferences apply to everyone else, or that the story has to somehow be the alpha and omega of everything for everyone.

 

Hint: it's not.

[Paradox]

Here's the funny thing about experiencing the world. Not everyone really cares about it. Even some roleplayers. Not only that, even if you're a roleplayer, you might not be interested in the story. The lore is one thing, but the story is really rather boring in the early parts and you can easily learn the lore without playing the story, because we have sources to look things up, a lorebook, people who know the lore you can ask the finer points from. If I could skip the entire first part of Minfilia's Grocery List: The Game every time I wanted to level an RP alt to get to the meatier parts of the game, trust me I would. I have a friend who is a roleplayer, but ignored every cutscene because it wasn't all that interesting to him.

 

When it comes to Jump Potions, one has to remember that the game honestly doesn't teach you your class anyway. Hall of the Novice is bare bones at best.  You learn a lot of what you're capable of at Endgame, or from advice from other people in your FC or Static. There are still healers who don't have swiftcast that are doing endgame content. And there are also people who *just* play the game to raid, Sure, leveling is easy, especially with PotD now. But that still won't 'teach' how to play your class effectively enough to do EX primals or Savage, etc.

Jump Potions don't come with endgame gear, it doesn't come with any special abilities, and you likely will still have to do the quests from your class guys to get your class quests, which means you still have to do some solo stuff. So basically the same thing other people do. MMOs aren't new. And FFXIV is a very simplistic WoW-style MMO. It won't take most players more than an hour to figure out how most things work on a basic level. And as was said, there are people in game from initial release that still play badly. But because it's such a casual game, you can get away with that, and that's fine.

 

I keep hearing the 'shorten the main story quest',but that would take a lot of reworking to change all the story quests, take out the fetch quest parts, ie, programming and code changes that would better be served with the design team making new content. Raising the exp would be a partial fix, but the sheer number of quests still makes it a boring slog. SWTOR did that same thing; they added much more xp and even with the fast leveling, I still got bored doing the same quests again. Hell, I exclusively level alts in PotD now and just do the MSQ overleveled.

 

My opinion to settle all the angst is 'just one'. Don't make them buyable in the Mogstation. Give one out with the expansion. Rift did the same thing; they gave you one to use, and I think that's pretty fair. Since most PvE heavies will play one character with all classes anyway, boosting only one is not only a good solution, but will also keep the 'pay2win' whiners down too. Yeah it's bad for the RPers who want all characters at max for travel and glamour, but RP isn't a significant part of the overall game population, so from a PvE standpoint, which is the game's mainstay, one per account per expansion seems just fine.

[Delilah Scythewood]

I want the jump potions because I'm utterly sick of going through the same cut scenes on every alt ever.

[Warren Castille]

I'm torn on them. On the one hand, they're a surefire way to get friends into playing the game with you if they don't already. Jump to the cap and start running stuff together! Great!

 

On the other hand, I feel there is a degree of learning that accompanies going through the game for the first time. On the other other hand, I know roleplayers like alts and since glamour is the real endgame, it sucks having to go through everything when you already know it. On the other other other hand, is it really that bad to let new players skip sequence a bit four years after the game came out? I almost wiped to Titan Hardmode in Trial Roulette earlier because landslide is hard to dodge.

 

I'd be okay with them being implemented. I'd be okay if they weren't. I do suspect it's a when and not an if, though.

[Shofie]

Great for RP, bad for PvE.

 

People complain about 'bad' players enough as it is. Imagine queuing for your roulette and getting this.

 

"Hi guys! Just jumped this Paladin, I have no idea what I'm doing so be patient k lol!"

 

The issue is this happens already with Palace of the Dead. Jump Potions won't introduce that sort of player, they're already happening.

[Kismet]

To echo others on the sentiment, jump potions will have little to do with player skill level. Mainly because there are plenty of people who have been subscribed to this game for years... and they still play like shit.

[Val]

Pretty much like others have said, I don't think the player base can get any worse than it already is. The entire 1-50 game is meant to teach people how to play. Hell, that's why half of the systems are even in the game to begin with, not to mention mentoring programs and other stuff, and players are still absolutely awful. If the introduction of jump potions makes it any worse, it can't be by much, and at this point if you're not unsyncing content or running with people you know, chances of clearing end game stuff are already abysmally low (in my experience, at least).

 

I say do it. People (and SE) will profit more from being able to skip/jump levels if they want.

[allgivenover]

It wouldn't bother me at all if it only jumped you to the "start" of the current expansion.

 

If it were implemented now it put you at the start of HW with all MSQ completed for ARR, at level 50.

 

Or level 60 with all of HW done for Stormblood.

 

Also if they do this I really hope they give a discount to people who have actually completed the quests. This would really help with RP alts and I would use it all the time.

[Val]

It wouldn't bother me at all if it only jumped you to the "start" of the current expansion.

 

If it were implemented now it put you at the start of HW with all MSQ completed for ARR, at level 50.

 

Or level 60 with all of HW done for Stormblood.

 

Also if they do this I really hope they give a discount to people who have actually completed the quests. This would really help with RP alts and I would use it all the time.

 

From how I've looked at it, there's two different ones you can currently buy. One is a story jump that puts you at the beginning of HW, and the other is a level jump. Both give you a discount based on how far the character already is in story and levels. 

 

Source - FFXIV SE Forums

[Delilah Scythewood]

Also if they do this I really hope they give a discount to people who have actually completed the quests. This would really help with RP alts and I would use it all the time.

 

Wishful thinking on the discount part, but being able to get my alts up without having to do the same things over and over again would be lovely @_@

[Aedan Marceaux]

An issue that comes to mind (and may have been mentioned in this thread already) is if people are able to jump their alts to x level, that takes their characters out of the pool of people running dungeons. Less people in the pool, the more painful it is for truly new people to get through them.

 

You could argue that's what the roulette are for, but let's be honest, how many people do you think actually run leveling roulette every day (if even at all). I, personally, only do it now three test a week for the relic weekly quest.

 

The same idea can be applied to fates (not that there are tons of people doing them now, anyway). Everyone jumps to cap, less people doing fates.

 

 

All of that being said, omg I want jump potions for my alts.

[Kilieit]

You could argue that's what the roulette are for' date=' but let's be honest, how many people do you think actually run leveling roulette every day (if even at all). I, personally, only do it now three test a week for the relic weekly quest.[/quote']

 

Um... lots... because it awards tomestones...

 

If they were having trouble with the number of people doing levelling roulette, they'd be able to boost the rewards for it at level cap, to make it more appealing.

[Valence]

I don't know about other people but I don't run anything else than expert... Well except trial and leveling to xp other jobs... But I'll soon be done with other jobs... 

 

Since they cap the top tier tomes at a punny 450 per week I don't need to run more than 5-6 experts per week. Anything else goes into leveling... Which I'lll run out of at some point.

[Kilieit]

I just don't think it's a simple "if A then B" case of "well then everyone would pay to be top level, and nobody would run levelling roulette any more except first-time newbies".

 

Roulettes (including levelling) have incentive rewards that can be adjusted as-needed if SE is worried about the number of players participating. They have tools to solve this problem that are not simply "don't implement jump potions". Wondrous Tails is an existing example of something like this (encouraging people to run old duties for currency and vanity rewards).

 

And it's not just newbies/people forbidden by the game from doing so who wouldn't use the potions, either - people who genuinely enjoy levelling, who rolled an alt because they want the experience of (re)playing the story, or who (assuming a WoW-style model) are too poor to spend more than the subscription cost on this game, are still going to be levelling alts the long way around.

 

The target audience of WoW-style jump potions is generally people who have more spare money than spare time, who want to play with their existing friends ASAP, and who would quit playing the game for boredom/loneliness if they had to spend a week or three getting to the stage where that was possible. There's lots of people who fall outside of that, and who would therefore still be doing things the old-fashioned way even if jump potions were freely purchasable with no restrictions on how many could be used per account.

[Val]

I'd say not to worry about people having trouble finding groups for lower level things. One of the base designs of this game is "If there aren't many people doing x, give them a reason to." Atma weapons solved the FATE problem the story mission made droves of people run Qarn when no one wanted to. If it becomes an issue, they'll make the next legendary mission require X amount of low level dungeons (like they've done once/twice already with books and light) or improve the awards, like someone mentioned earlier. While I absolutely loathe this kind of game design, it certainly can be useful for those still coming up.