discussion RP Racism?

[Jean L]

I mean I RP a Hyur most of the time and my other character is an alt that I rarely RP with who's an Au Ra who WOULD experience prejudice from Ishgardians. Jean also is in a relationship with an Au Ra while also being from Ishgard so I'd imagine that his taste in partners would be met with outright hate. I'm wondering if it would be viewed as heretical to be with an Au Ra in Ishgard?

[TrueGota]

There's a lot of racism thrown around in the game, yes. Mostly because the five Eorzean races have been going at it back and forth throughout history and have only relatively recently truly been forced to work and live together peacefully.

I hope you don't mind the question but how do you think the situation would be if it was the opposite of that? Like, the races of a world were working/living together for millenia instead of recently? Asking for something outside of FF14.

[Sounsyy]

I'm wondering if it would be viewed as heretical to be with an Au Ra in Ishgard?

 

Sidurgu and the Orl tribe of Xaela came to Coerthas fleeing Garlean-occupied Othard. They arrived in 1562, fifteen years ago, which followed a recent resurgence of Dravanian attacks following the 8th Awakening of Nidhogg. During this 8th Awakening, Nidhogg razed several Coerthan hamlets, including Ferndale. There is some contention over the exact date, however. Part of the lore book and in game lore dates this attack at 1557, while the Encyclopedia's timeline erroneously lists the attack as having occurred in 1562. In any case, this would've been a terrible time period for anyone/anything with scales to arrive in Ishgard.

 

The first Ishgardians to encounter Au Ra saw Dravanians. We had fled Garlemald's armies only to come to a land where we were mistaken for another nation's mortal enemy. They bared steel and came to kill us... but we did not die so easily. We spared them and sent them on their way... and how do you think they repaid our kindness? With fire and blood! With death for every man, woman, and child!

 

...I was about Rielle's age when I came to Ishgard. My parents, they... they said we would find a better life here. When the Temple Knights we had shown mercy returned, they let us choose the order in which we would die. That would be their mercy to us, they declared.

 

The Orl tribe was wiped out and Sidurgu the only survivor. However, this was 15 years ago. With more Auri refugees flooding into Eorzea in the past year and a better scholarly understanding that these Spoken are not kin to dragons in any way, Ishgard seems to have relaxed on wholesale slaughter of the race. That's not to say there aren't those in Ishgard who might hold such prejudices still, but killing an Au Ra would now be considered murder.

 

Now' date=' as for how the Au Ra are regarded by others living in Eorzea, while there was racial tension in past ages, recently with the onset of the Age of Adventure and an influx in the amount of people of all races flocking to Eorzea, there truly isn’t any form of heavy discrimination towards the Au Ra (it also helps that because very few Au Ra ever visited Eorzea before, there is little deep-seated hate stemming from historical conflict). However, because they are new to Eorzea and there is much mystery surrounding them, a lot of native Eorzeans are still a bit wary (even if they don’t really know why).[/quote']

 

So, "heretical"? Maybe not. But definitely frowned upon! It'd definitely earn suspicious eyes, turning of heads, hushed whispers, etc. But Sidurgu has been living inside Ishgard for some time now, and he's somehow managed to escape the label of heretic.

 

Hope that helps! ^^

 

 

 

EDIT:

___________________________

There's a lot of racism thrown around in the game, yes. Mostly because the five Eorzean races have been going at it back and forth throughout history and have only relatively recently truly been forced to work and live together peacefully.

I hope you don't mind the question but how do you think the situation would be if it was the opposite of that? Like, the races of a world were working/living together for millenia instead of recently? Asking for something outside of FF14.

 

Um, I don't think I could honestly say? The game's world is painted by historical conflicts dating back before the Allagans 5000 years ago. I don't think it would be anything close to the world of FFXIV we have now. It's really something the game's lore team would have to answer.

[Kallera]

War is often a wellspring of a lot of hate and prejudice. We might see some directed toward ala mighans and garleans depending on how Eorzea's fortunes play out.

[Jean L]

I'm wondering if it would be viewed as heretical to be with an Au Ra in Ishgard?

 

Sidurgu and the Orl tribe of Xaela came to Coerthas fleeing Garlean-occupied Othard. They arrived in 1562, fifteen years ago, which followed a recent resurgence of Dravanian attacks following the 8th Awakening of Nidhogg. During this 8th Awakening, Nidhogg razed several Coerthan hamlets, including Ferndale. There is some contention over the exact date, however. Part of the lore book and in game lore dates this attack at 1557, while the Encyclopedia's timeline erroneously lists the attack as having occurred in 1562. In any case, this would've been a terrible time period for anyone/anything with scales to arrive in Ishgard.

 

 I'm actually going through the DRK questline right now. Sid's words are what made me wonder how relationships with Au Ra with other races would be frowned on in Ishgard especially. Given this information I'm guessing it'd be fair to assume someone non-Au Ra being in a relationship with an Au Ra would be viewed as a traitor by some of the less understanding, extreme members of Ishgard.

[ckingch]

Those dang knife eared dhalmels in Ishgard and Gridania.

[QalliFlower]

So I've seen a couple ideas like this thrown around from time to time and I was curious how they go about it. Like do we have any NPC's that make racist remarks based on you being miqo'te or something? Also are there any particular remarks or stereotypes people use? I'm a lil uncomfortable asking this personally but I got curious one day what people could think of that is considered offensive towards an au ra, a roe, or miqo'te etc.

 

When it comes to in-game examples, this is the most specific I've found.

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/TRxKMlU.png[/img]

 

[Arashin Kujqai]

That's it huh... They don't really stretch too far it seems lol.

[QalliFlower]

My exposure to the game's content is far from complete but yes, while race relations are definitely a theme of the game it isn't laid on terribly thick.

 

What I found interesting was in the ACN story, where your first big antagonist is a Roegadyn who utterly terrorizes your Miqo'te colleague.  IIRC he never made a dig at her race specifically, but focused more on her being small and weak and not in charge.  He likely had less reason to think or care about race than the NPC quoted earlier (a Wildwood member of the Archers' Guild who wanted to keep his craft "pure").

[Valence]

While the archer questline goes a great length to portray the underlying racism between gridanians aimed at miqo'te, I don't think Silvairre is a great example in himself, because all his posturing is bloated and over exaggerated, since he actually hides a lot of his feelings behind that, where all his hatred is actually directed at himself, though if you want to know more, I strongly advise you to go on ahead and see why it is so. I don't want to spoil anything with that character. It's true though, that he was probably full of prejudices before, and thus why he relies on them, but that's what makes me say that his forceful, over the top antics are probably not the best reflection of the reality. I think if you want to really read under the lines in that quest, it's best to listen to what Leih Aliapoh has to say on the matter.

 

For the ACN questline, the motivations of that specific roegadyn pirate are probably aimed at a position of power and domination from his part yes, but it's not so much directed at her size rather than her past that involves... him too. Likewise, it's explained near the end of the questline.

[QalliFlower]

While the archer questline goes a great length to portray the underlying racism between gridanians aimed at miqo'te, I don't think Silvairre is a great example in himself, because all his posturing is bloated and over exaggerated, since he actually hides a lot of his feelings behind that, where all his hatred is actually directed at himself, though if you want to know more, I strongly advise you to go on ahead and see why it is so. I don't want to spoil anything with that character. It's true though, that he was probably full of prejudices before, and thus why he relies on them, but that's what makes me say that his forceful, over the top antics are probably not the best reflection of the reality. I think if you want to really read under the lines in that quest, it's best to listen to what Leih Aliapoh has to say on the matter.

 

For the ACN questline, the motivations of that specific roegadyn pirate are probably aimed at a position of power and domination from his part yes, but it's not so much directed at her size rather than her past that involves... him too. Likewise, it's explained near the end of the questline.

 

These are all good points.  I was mostly aiming to answer the OP's question of "what would a racist character say to a Miqo'te" and also emphasize that such attitudes aren't strictly a "bad guy" thing.

 

If the aim is for the OP's character to have faced racism as part of his background, it seems like the choices are either an extreme case like Silvairre (whose underlying motivations might or might not be explained) or the more subtle "microaggression" type talked about earlier in this thread.  That's an argument based purely on what's in the game, though - players write their characters and NPCs how they will, and that affects our IC experiences as much as backstory does.

[Rosekitten]

Not sure if it was mentioned and I don't have time to read through all the posts. It also can depend on the area said character is from. Like if they hail from ishgard they may take offense to something different than if the character hailed from Limsa or Uld. 

 

I can't think of any examples from quests at the moment but I know there was a fair bit of them. Some areas of course had them more out in the open per say than others. Like saying that a ishgardian is related or in relations to a dragon was more or less fighting words as far as I became aware in the story. 

 

I do remember the lancer quest line it ended or near the end dealt with a duskwight that was pretty stereotypical of what I guess most expect from the duskies? I don't remember the details to great length as it's been a few years when I last completed the quest line...I do remember the npc bringing up something about people would have pointed the finger at him regardless or something like that..long story short and my lack of details here... because he was a duskie he would have been blamed for whatever action had taken place.

[Arashin Kujqai]

Also just to clarify, I don't plan to use any of this for my char . I was just curious how some people went about it and what I could expect in terms of it on the receiving end if I ever RP'd with someone that does.

[PSDuckie]

Tyll'a, for one, hates Garleans.  Although that's a bit fair, as his sister died at Carteneau.  But still, he's much more likely to draw his blades against a Garlean than he is to talk to one.

 

That said, there is one ex-Garlean that he considers a friend.

[Yian Kutku]

There's also the possibility of... I'm not sure whether it's still considered straight-up racism, but it's definitely some sort of prejudice.

 

Specifically, instead of being racist against Elezen or Miqo'te or Au Ra, one might instead discriminate against Gridanians, or Ishgardians, or Ul'dahns. We've all heard the generalizations of "all Ul'dahns are money-grubbing", or "all Limsans are pirates", or the somewhat ironic "all Ishgardians are xenophobic".

 

I was thinking about this mostly with regards to my Sharlayan-origin character, and the dim view the Old Sharlayans have against Eorzeans. The Sharlayan stereotype is to dismiss Eorzeans as uncivilized savages, which strikes me as having the same thought-space as racism, even if Eorzeans come in all sorts of races and cultures.

[LiadansWhisper]

There's a scene that takes place in front of...I think it's the Lancer building? Between some Wildwood Wailers and a Duskwight. It's pretty terrible.

[Narissis]

I was thinking about this mostly with regards to my Sharlayan-origin character, and the dim view the Old Sharlayans have against Eorzeans. The Sharlayan stereotype is to dismiss Eorzeans as uncivilized savages, which strikes me as having the same thought-space as racism, even if Eorzeans come in all sorts of races and cultures.

 

As far as I can tell, Sharlayan and Garlemald are similar in that respect... Sharlayan is the enlightened magic civilization that pities Eorzea for its lesser arcane advancement, and Garlemald is the enlightened technology civilization that pities Eorzea for its lesser scientific advancement.

 

Obviously, the foreign policy of the two is, on the other hand, diametrically opposed. Sharlayan be like "we're the magic master race so we're just gonna isolate ourselves from the dirty less-magic peasants" while Garlemald be like "we're the tech master race so we're gonna 'enlighten' the luddite peasants whether they like it or not".

 

 

There's a scene that takes place in front of...I think it's the Lancer building?  Between some Wildwood Wailers and a Duskwight.  It's pretty terrible.

 

There's also a little vignette at Buscarron's Druthers where a drunk patron assails a Duskwight in the yard.

[Valence]

Necroing that thread because I eventually ended up going through the SB Bard quests. That are about the Autumn War.

 

So the WW2 comparison wasn't that poor actually (although in the case of Eorzea it seems to have stuck way longer). It seems to be rather similar, where mostly old Gridanian people and a nationalistic fringe still clings to loathing Ala Migho, but aside from those, vindicative feelings seem to have mostly vanished to make way for the more modern Eorzean Alliance, and helping in the liberation of Ala Migho. 

 

Without spoiling, it is however mentioned that a specific buried secret could change drastically the view of all gridanians if it was to be unearthed. So... the Autumn War scars are still healing apparently.

 

 

[Staccato]

One thing to caution people about when things such as racism and/or nationalism comes up in rp is to be concious of creating situations that can end up crossing the IC/OOC line, even if its not intended.  

 

For example, my character, a hyur, one day was hanging out at an rp event with some new friends that she had made.  Unfortunately, the chat scroll can make it difficult for me to keep up sometimes, and so i missed many of the comments made by one friend, a miqo, because I was trying hard to focus on another conversation.   

 

Once things had cleared a little at the event, the new miqo friend asked my character about how she felt about her "midlander privelege".  At the time, the question absolutely floored me and made me pretty uncomfortable OOC, and I was left wondering what my character had done.  Upon reflection, it could have been an opportunity for character growth, but it really had taken me by surprise. 

 

After an OOC conversation with the characters player,  i better understood how and why that comment had come up ICly fron their perspective.  Admittedly I did not agree with all of their points at the time,  and some I still question,  but I do better now see their points.  

 

Yet still, part of me is a bit anxious about attending large events where I know there will be a ton of chat scroll, because chances are I will miss something someone says and that could heavily affect how my character is viewed henceforth, in a way I didn't want or didn't intend.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

"midlander privelege"

 

I play a Highlander and that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard

 

You would've been well within your rights to instablacklist tbh

[LiadansWhisper]

I don't usually agree with Kieron on much, but...

 

That's seriously the dumbest thing I've ever heard, Staccato. I'd avoid that player in the future. They sound like a manipulative dumbass.

 

Also, if people are heavily judging you because you can't keep up with chat scroll at large events, they're dumbasses, too.

[Zhavi]

I'd put that down to inappropriately incorporating modern buzzwords into your rp. I think most people wind up tossing colloquialisms into the pile, it's pretty inevitable, but I think there's some wisdom in avoiding socio-political trends irl with people you don't know well or have never rped with before.

 

That said, I think also taking things with a grain of salt is good. Rather than immediately blacklisting, if the person otherwise seemed like a decent sort, I'd open a dialogue with them. Why did they use that particular phrase? Sometimes people can be clumsy with rping sensitive subjects, especially if they've never really written them before, and their good intentions get mixed up in poor word choices and unintentionally coming across like some clodhopper.

 

So, imo, talking to them was a good way to handle it -- and you know, if you think they're worth keeping contact with, there is no reason why you can't come back to the topic in the future. Who knows, maybe it'll lead to some growth on how to handle rp racism, and why and how the various racial/species groups in Hydaelyn feel the way they do about each other, and how they come across to each other.

 

But if they wind up becoming more of a butt, toss them to the curb, yo, and focus on people who improve your rp experience.

[Casanova Sandwich]

Once things had cleared a little at the event, the new miqo friend asked my character about how she felt about her "midlander privelege".

 I was just reading along with the thread and nodding along until reading this particular scenario made me squint. To be quite honest, I'm quite curious myself; how on Earth (Hydaelyn?) would she think that's a thing anywhere culturally? And why would she randomly ask about it? I think it's the quest "It's Not Easy Being Green" where there's a couple that's faced tension for being a Miqo'te and a Hyur(?), but that's pretty much all I recall about stuff like that between Hyur and Miqo'te in specific.

 

 Otherwise, Midlander what? Immediately, I find myself absurdly curious, even moreso than confused (probably because I roleplay a character is half Ishgardian Elezen, the other half being Hyur, so he's been openly called a "half-breed" by even well-meaning characters in IC dialogue, not to mention the irony that much of the racism he's gotten from PC's so far has been from ""Ishgardian"" Miqo'te, of all races to care for some reason, much less hail from a 95% Elezen city, lol)... in Heavensward, isn't Hilda's title "The Mongrel" because she's half highborn Elezen, half lowborn Hyur? In fact, I believe there's drastically more highborn Elezen than Hyur. The main four noble houses themselves are all Elezen, anyway.

[Nako Vesh]

Gridanians don't trust Duskwight or Keepers of the Moon much. Some of that is covered in the Lancer and Archer story lines. My character certainly has bias toward Keepers.

 

Once things had cleared a little at the event, the new miqo friend asked my character about how she felt about her "midlander privelege".

 

There's no way this wasn't a "joke." I mean a very bad and tired joke, but likely not meant seriously in any case.

[Kallera]

Midlanders do not have privilege, afaik. They don't seem to be favored or disliked among the races.

 

I have a feeling Kall, a duskwight, is going to build a growing racism against anythng garlean, given all the adventures she is going on having something to do with their tech or them doing dastardly things. She doesn't have any ex-garlean friends, I'm not sure how she'd react to one, actually.

 

As far as miqo'te. well I have seen anything on the level of the duskers's epithets, I've heard miqo'te in general don't like to be called or attributed to "cats". I'm not sure how true that is, but it might be seen as degrading.