discussion Is the hate really that bad?

[Telin Zulin]

So I been doing a lot of reading about Miqo'te and Lalafell lore wise and such and so far out of all the races they interest me the most in terms of lore and overall look. My question is really is there really that much hate for these races? Rp wise I been developing a backstory for a Male Miqo'te Seeker, (whos parents are actually a seeker and a keeper) and started work on a Male Lalafell but after reading all the negative stuff its kind of discouraged me from playing them and roleplaying with them. Don't get me wrong I can handle a few unruly people but if the grief is so wide spread and can't get a good quality rp just because of my chosen race to play I might as well just go hyur and be done with it. Keep in mind I usually play more serious roles (not dark) but my characters are not something to take as a joke because I literally spend hours on developing them. Sorry for the ramble I been overthinking way to much when it comes to picking something to play I'm down to a Male Miqo'te Bard or Lalafell Summoner but starting to wonder if I shouldn't just go play another race because from what I seen there is a lot of hate for these two races.

[Faye]

I'm curious where you've been seeing this "hate?" Every race has certain stigmas attached to them, even something as generic as Midlanders often gets dissed as "boring." Typically, these comments are from people who mean it relatively light-heartedly, with the exception of a minority people who really are that intense and judgmental with their preconceived notions of other people's RP characters. The latter you are probably dodging a bullet by not interacting with, anyway. Plenty of male Miqot'e and plenty of lalafell have no issue finding RP and friends, and plenty are great role-players, many breaking the stigmas and some even being great despite falling into the generic stereotypes of their races. Neither are just targeted for random harassment because of their race (unless you count /pets, because apparently lalafell get driveby /pets all the time and for some reason that seriously peeves some people). Play what you want, because anyone who will not interact with you based on your character's race is no one worth being around!

[Telin Zulin]

Thanks Faye! Sorry it was just a overthinking on my part I been stewing over what character to play first and I'm going through all the research I can possibly do on it before I take the plunge in

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Play what you find interesting. If the character's well-written, then players who appreciate interesting characters will cluster around you. Just don't let people get to you, and, don't be afraid to stick up for yourself OOCly if someone just won't take a hint (for instance, if you're playing a lalafell and they keep cracking jokes about your character being a child, ICly, and you rebuff the jokes, and they persist with it, don't be shy about asking them OOCly if they'd mind easing up on that, since you're intending to play a serious character - the player might not realize they're hurting your feelings. On the other hand, they might throw out the classic excuse players make when their characters are being jerks, and tell you "oh it's just all IC, hahaha, don't take IC into OOC bruh, ugh", in which case, alright, they've just told you what you need to know - they're more interested in their own luls than in trying to cooperatively enjoy time with you, so, move right along and let them go annoy somebody else).

[Faye]

Thanks Faye! Sorry it was just a overthinking on my part I been stewing over what character to play first and I'm going through all the research I can possibly do on it before I take the plunge in

 

No problem, it's good to think things out before making a character! Do what you enjoy, and have fun!

[Nebbs]

So I been doing a lot of reading about Miqo'te and Lalafell lore wise and such and so far out of all the races they interest me the most in terms of lore and overall look...

 

Excellent choice! I personally like tend towards the less human races as it allows for extra dimensions to explore.

 

...after reading all the negative stuff its kind of discouraged me from playing them and roleplaying with them...

 

Negative stuff? I don't see them getting any more than other races. I think each race has those who like them and those that dislike them. I have not seen anyone hating on a race.

 

I am also concerned that you will reinforce this negative view that you have by avoiding RPing with anyone playing these races? Why would you do that?

 

...I might as well just go hyur and be done with it...

 

I am confused why you would jump from Miqo'te to Hyur and not consider Roe or Elezen or AuRa? 

 

...Keep in mind I usually play more serious roles (not dark) but my characters are not something to take as a joke because I literally spend hours on developing them...

 

Many of us spend more than hours on our characters, please be assured many take this very seriously. I would suggest that you find a suitably serious FC, as that is likely to be the determining factor and not what race you choose.

 

...I'm down to a Male Miqo'te Bard or Lalafell Summoner but starting to wonder if I shouldn't just go play another race because from what I seen there is a lot of hate for these two races...

 

Again, I am not seeing this hate? You are likely to get more heat from Lore Strict folks overplaying a Summoner than your race.

 

My advice, play what you want, what embodies your vision. Picking something to avoid the hate you feel is there will likely always have that bitter taste of compromise. And remember there is always Fantasia.

 

Please don't side with this view of Hate, even if some do hate these races that is no reason to accept it as something you should also practice.

[SapphireSkylines]

I have the same question as everyone else - where are you seeing this hate? Because I main a miqo'te and lalafell and I've never had people tell me that they won't RP with me because of the race I play. If they did, it would be obvious that they weren't worth my time anyways. I think you should play what you want and enjoy it. You're paying a subscription after all to have fun here. A miqo'te bard and a lalafell summoner sound like great concepts. I can't wait to see what sort of personality traits and backstories you develop for these characters. 

[ExAtomos]

I'm curious where you've been seeing this "hate?"

 

 

Negative stuff? I don't see them getting any more than other races. I think each race has those who like them and those that dislike them. I have not seen anyone hating on a race.

 

I am also concerned that you will reinforce this negative view that you have by avoiding RPing with anyone playing these races? Why would you do that?

 

 

Again, I am not seeing this hate? You are likely to get more heat from Lore Strict folks overplaying a Summoner than your race.

 

 

Alright... while I fully agree on the "play what you want, good folks will RP with you", OP's concern about certain races and encountering problems with RP is not unfounded and has been discussed at length here on the RPC.

 

Is it considered "weird: to play a Miqo'te

Cat Boiz.. Why.. (this is a void thread. meant to be taken with a grain of salt.)

 

Going Lalafell, distinct decline in RP?

Lalafell RP

Lalafell not taken seriously in RP.

 

So. We have plenty of examples that are easy to find right here on this forum. (I'm not even going to bother with the OF or Reddit. But then, they hate on RPers in general.)

 

I have had issues being taken seriously as my Lalafell on multiple occasions. Sadly, most of this was with people who were in my FC and thought it was funny to abuse Lalafell. While they did come around a little so that my RP improved, I have since left and have heard that they are back to their old ways with new targets.

 

I also play a Seeker Nunh. Yes, there is some reflexive stereotyping that goes on with some people regarding Miqo'te of any gender.

 

In truth, people who tend to give others shit about what race they are playing are not folks you want to roleplay with anyways. So, yes, play what you want! If you create a character with a "Well I wanted to play this, but was too scared to", that can keep you from really connecting with them and can cause more problems with your enjoyment of the character. Loving your own character idea goes a long way in developing good RP and enjoying the game.

[Skae]

I have never seen any actual hate for any of the races, but some of them are indeed treated less seriously than others.

 

In particular lalafell is far too often treated as a joke race - even by people who ought to know better.

(If I had a gil for every "lalafell = popoto" comparison I have heard I could probably buy a large house by now.)

This does not mean you shouldn't play a lalafell - but be prepared that you will occasionally find it more difficult to be taken seriously than you would if playing some other race.

[ExAtomos]

I have never seen any actual hate for any of the races, but some of them are indeed treated less seriously than others.

 

In particular lalafell is far too often treated as a joke race - even by people who ought to know better.

(If I had a gil for every "lalafell = popoto" comparison I have heard I could probably buy a large house by now.)

This does not mean you shouldn't play a lalafell - but be prepared that you will occasionally find it more difficult to be taken seriously than you would if playing some other race.

 

From this thread.

 

It really comes down to what people have said. Out of the races in game, Lalafell hold the highest chance of being trollplayers. Those folks that are obviously out to troll and bother you, but the moment you call them out, cry about how "I was just IC! It is how my character is!".

As well, as others pointed out, there are those who sexualize Lalafell in completely creepy ways. Or they just act like utter creeps. Such as, I've learned that on a roe lady? Don't wear a dress. Doesn't matter where I go (as in, it happens outside the Quicksand), I will have a lala target me and walk under the dress. Typically followed by either an emote or a tell about how they are looking up my lady's dress/skirt.

 

So yeah, after pretty much -all- my experiences with Lalafell falling into one of those categories? I am hesitant to rp with them.

 

Yea, most of my Lalafell experiences have been pretty bad outside of my FC.

 

That being said, one of my very first random roleplay on Balmung was with a Lalafell and it was the best interaction I've had in a good while back then. I regret not adding him to my friend's list and I do not remember his name.

 

Unfortunately I know the hate. I used to play both blood elves and pandaren in WoW, and both were on the receiving side of a fair amount of player bias.

 

The best thing that I can suggest doing? Is honestly just start slowly. Make friends with people OOC, and reassure them that your lala is not the same as others. Then, roleplay with them in public. People will see that, and honestly? It will stick in their brain. They may not put you on their friend's list or anything, but chances are they will at least think twice the next time they run into you. Which is at least a start.

 

But in the end, and here is where the jaded cynical side of me speaks. You just cannot change public opinion easily. Or even effectively. There are too many lala out there who are perfectly content to play the creeper. And there are too many out there to play the troll. Until the ratio changes, to where the majority are not creepy little trolls? Then yeah, the hate will not change. And right now? Lalas are creepy little trolls, by a wide wide WIDE margin.

 

Caspar, I stand fully by what I said. It is what I have experienced, and how I both view the subject matter and how I choose to play. Kinda sorry not sorry that it seems to have bothered you so much? But in the end, yeah. After bad experiences with creeps, I tend to take a: "Show me you are different, and I will happily rp with you" viewpoint. Maybe that is not the nicest way to play, but it saves me drama in the game.

 

Beyond that, I offered what I thought was actually a decent solution. You have to show that you are different, when public opinion and thought says things are of a specific way. It sucks, but that is just life.

 

However this is the last I am going to post here. It is getting towards the more argumentative side of discussion, at least in my eyes. So if you would like to continue, feel free to send a PM. Otherwise, I am not going to clog up a person's thread.

 

 

I have personally had one of the few RPers on Atomos spam /disgust at me every time we encountered each other for changing into a Lalafell. I've been straight up told that my Lalafell can't be taken seriously in RP just due to being a Lalafell and while I guess this doesn't count as "hate"? the end result is the same.

 

ETA: I want to clarify that it's a noisy minority who acts like this! But to say it doesn't exist is disingenuous.

[voidVirago]

I play a female Seeker Miqo'te that I made when I knew like, no lore (her name has no ties to a tribe, generally pretty weird for a seeker) but people still have come to really like her, despite her race and stuff :-)

 

It's all about how you present yourself in RP, and sure, Rihxo's a big titty catgirl, but she's out there to make her chocolates and fight for what's right. I could go into the futa ERP realm, which is the usual stigma, but I don't! And if you do that's cool. 

 

TL;DR it's all about how you present what you've got.

[Erah'sae]

Heya,

I've been playing a male Keeper for a while, and while there are some stereotypes out there, there's only been two actual cases that might fit the bill in a bit over two years.  One of those was from someone I'd rubbed the wrong way in a previous game that carried a grudge so I don't think that really counts.

 

But I guess it's the situations you put yourself in and the folks you surround yourself with combined with how you play the character.  While a lot of people don't take lallafels seriously at first glance, once you present yourself and show a bit of consistency the stereotypes fall off.  

 

If folks you run with are incapable of doing so and taking you seriously as one, then it may be time to find a new circle?

[Gegenji]

I have personally had one of the few RPers on Atomos spam /disgust at me every time we encountered each other for changing into a Lalafell. I've been straight up told that my Lalafell can't be taken seriously in RP just due to being a Lalafell and while I guess this doesn't count as "hate"? the end result is the same.

 

ETA: I want to clarify that it's a noisy minority who acts like this! But to say it doesn't exist is disingenuous.

 

As - I would hope, at least - one of the "good" Lalafell compared to the less savory sorts, I've been pretty fortunate that most of the folks I RP with tend to take my characters decently seriously. If anything, I think it might be their personalities that play a larger part in how people interact with them - with cunning and conniving Gogon usually garnering a bit more respect than dopey little Chachan (except in matters where he can show off his smithing and whatnot).

 

However, I think the issue of being taken "seriously" becomes the biggest issue... in combat situations. I'll just say that straight out - there are many folks who have difficulty accepting a Lalafell as a creditable combat threat, especially in the martial roles. There's been threads before debating how strong a Lalafell is and if they could take, say, a Roegadyn in a blow-for-blow match considering equal skill and ability.

 

Some of it makes sense. Some of it doesn't. I've seen people put forth reasonable theories and assumptions regarding the physics of it all, but I've also seen folks who just feel like it's "bad" or "demeaning" to lose to a Lalafell in combat so they tend to just brush the loss off and act like they hadn't lost at all. Or that they weren't trying their hardest because "Lalafell."

 

It's basically a degree of OOC bleed where they are seeing this cutesy looking, child-like race and thus treating them like that even though in-universe that... doesn't really happen. And you even have members of said race doing some pretty non-cutesy things (see Teledji and Pipin).

 

And it often is just exaggerated when some Lalafell players also play them as shallow-cutesy, trolly, and otherwise to... basically continue the stereotype.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

Raubahn adopted a lala voiced by Nobuyuki Hiyama then gave him his sword to rekt Imperials

 

Can't get much manlier than that

[Aya]

Short answer: Its not actually that bad!

[xelliexell]

I think that no matter which race you choose to play, there will always be inherent assumptions about that race.

 

If you play a Lalafell, you'll probably encounter potato or punting jokes, but if you play an Elezen, you'll probably encounter giraffe / long neck jokes. Granted, most of these jokes don't hold any true maliciousness from the vast majority of people who say them, so I don't think they're really fueled by a particular hatred.

 

There will be a minority in any RP community that is incomprehensibly bias against a particular race/trait on an OoC level, but I think you can encounter these sorts no matter what you play. I wouldn't let the judgmental opinion of an outspoken few keep you from playing what you want to play! As many others have said before me, so long as you play your character in a convincing/thoughtful way, you shouldn't have much trouble. And if someone does hassle you over the race of your character in a malicious or uncomfortable way, those aren't the people you'd want to RP with anyway.

 

Best of luck with bringing your ideas to life!

[Perth]

There's a bad rap for just about every race, honestly - some are just more prevalent than others. Something to keep in mind is that these are strictly prejudices and harsh stereotypes; they serve as poorly in an online roleplaying setting as they do in real life. Roleplay what you want, do what you believe is your best, and you won't have anything to worry about. Anyone who chooses to discriminate against your character's race is just cheating themselves out of a potentially fantastic roleplaying partner, and a whole fraction of the game's interesting universe.

[Faye]

Alright... while I fully agree on the "play what you want, good folks will RP with you", OP's concern about certain races and encountering problems with RP is not unfounded and has been discussed at length here on the RPC.

 

I wasn't meaning in any regards that there are no stigmas against Lalafell or Miqo'te or that playing them doesn't sometimes come with certain hurdles (as does playing just about any other race), but personally I've never seen it to the degree that I'd refer to it as "all the hate" or that it would give me pause in deciding to play either race, hence I was wondering where OP was seeing these things (because people in non-RP spaces like FB groups, /shout chat, and official forums can get pretty vitriolic in their opinions on different races, in which case I was going to mention these people aren't typically role-players anyhow).

[ArmachiA]

There's no hate, but there is a Stigma. To some, Miqote players are seen as ERP alts (Especially female) and Lalafell are considered too child-like to take seriously (It doesn't help some play Lalafell as actual Hyur children). Also with Lalafell their chance at romantic RP is GREATLY diminished, as many can't get over the child-like appearance (Which is fair, but just so you know).

 

HOWEVER, it's not as bad as people will say it is. Like, no where near as bad. You'll def. get some judgy people but it's not everyone, or even most everyone.

[Telin Zulin]

Sorry it was a very poor choice of words I ment to say stigma but at the time I couldn't think of the word I was looking for to describe what I was trying to ask about.

[Caspar]

Generally this question gets downplayed a lot on the RPC, as some of the older threads have shown. The example used earlier here is a discussion I was in, which did a good job showcasing the open or extreme form of bias, which is pretty uncommon, but what I mentioned there I think is still useful.

 

Basically, Lalafell and Miqo'te suffer from two different issues as RP choices, namely one is extremely unpopular as a RP character, and the other is exceptionally popular. This makes broad statements about bias or stereotypes within roleplaying somewhat difficult to pin down, and leads to people downplaying them. In particular Lalafell are so unpopular outside of JP servers that the sample size of players actually RPing is minuscule (Ha ha.) and therefore a single player can generate a disproportionately large impression of RPers who pick the race overall. Among PVE only players, Lalafell have a slightly higher representation, and this can lead to the misperception we're common. 

 

The number of Lalafell RP mains that are actually active RPers that come to mind, I can count on two hands. The rest are alts, barely, if ever, played. Putting confirmation bias aside can be difficult, which is why I usually don't put tremendous stock in my own experiences with RP. I've met a lot of people willing to work with me, and a few people not willing to work with me. Therefore it becomes difficult to say whether this sample actually means anything; I'm generating a giant portion of people's Lalafell exposure every time I RP because there's just few alternatives. (I've never been in an FC where there was more than maybe 2-3 Lalafell mains active at most.) It could be the two or three Lalas a person runs into were trolls or creeps, and that would permanently and irrevocably damage their impression of those RPers. 

 

So the short version of the story is to not take any particular statement about the presence or lack thereof of an overall trend of bias on the server as unassailable truth and simply ask yourself the question "Is it easier to punch down on a small group of people, or a large group of people?" That should tell you everything you need to know about how RPers are liable to treat Lalafell RPers, depending on their innate personality. There could be any number of reasons behind it, but thinking about intent is tricky as there's no real way to gauge it effectively en mass. Maybe they are put off by the lack of sexual attractiveness, maybe they're afraid of being seen as a comedy character, but small numbers are poor defense. 

 

The Miqo'te have a different issue. It may be that simply because of the sheer numbers of the race among RPers specifically, rather than PVE players, it can be difficult simply to tell one from another because it's likely there's a cat with a tongue-twister name out there who looks very similar to yours. Again confirmation bias rules the day; a player who encounters a large number of Miqo'te who are similar may attribute behavior of one player or more to many others due to basically not being able to tell them apart. While this might seem uncharitable to the Miqo'te RPers, how easy your character is to recognize can positively or negatively dispose people towards your writing, and it's not always easy to recognize individual players within a greater trend. This has absolutely no meaning as to whether they can write an interesting story. Au Ra haven't had the time nor the ability to get established that Miqo'te have, and in this alone they are saved from the same problem. 

 

Again, you can ask yourself a question instead of trying to solve the impossible puzzle of determining the dominant attitude towards Miqo'te as a character choice; "Is it popular to hate what's popular?" That should tell you everything you need to know about how RPers are liable to treat Miqo'te RPers, depending on their innate personality. Simply the fact that they're common is enough reason to consider the possibility of players broad-brushing cats, or just hating them out of spite, a pretty unfair reaction. 

 

The takeaway from this might be "pick a race that's common, but not common enough to be hated, nor rare enough to struggle to make a positive impression," but ultimately, I'll stick with the more generic message. Basically, as meandering as all of this is, I'm more or less encouraging you to play what you can feel a sense of investment in, without regard for the trends among other players, and focus on what you personally enjoy. Whether or not the dominant stereotypes are *actually* dominant or not, they exist, and the difference is mainly in how people engage with them. Since you can't control their actions, I think the best approach is probably writing a character you're satisfied with. Using the race you choose, the one you're personally happiest with, will lead to the best RP experience because it contributes to your own personal investment first, and that of others second. Being aware of the stereotypes and not allowing yourself to be bothered by them has helped me continue to find RP and build close connections that make the experience worthwhile; I don't let people downplay the difficulties of playing an unpopular choice, nor do I assume being part of a popular choice is necessarily any easier. They have their own respective stigma and challenges, but they're not insignificant nor are they insurmountable.

[V'aleera]

Anyone who doesn't take Lalafell seriously is either ignorant of the lore or is playing a very poorly socialized character.