The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[mongi291]

I haven't bothered leveling PLD to 60 only because the best armor I could get as a filthy casual was job-locked, and I didn't want to waste Esoterics for a job that would be redundant, since I already had WAR. Now, however, the best Tome gear will be role-based (I think).

PLD was my first job to 50, and I have always loved Holy Knights and Paladins. Seeing as leveling other jobs to 60 isn't even that hard anymore, I'll probably start leveling it as soon as I get back from my totally unjustified 2 week-vacation.

[Silane]

Warren said most of the facts here (The only thing I'm commenting on is how DrK should always be MT if you want the most damage out of them/us cause I'mma DrK) Yea generally in a group with 3 tanks (VA) The paladin and warrior would OT Purely because a DrK does the most damage out of MTs while being able to tank just as well/if not better in some cases as a PLD. Sadly Paladins are in a bad place right now (Dark Knights are too compared to Warriors but that is a different story) I'd never say a tank is irrelevant as Paladins do make the best MT for Thordan due to his physical tank busters that (As a DrK get scary when he is on stack 4+ and I'm running low on CDs)....(PLDs are in a poor place right now compared to both tanks and DrK are poor compared to War..welcome to HW balance I hope 3.2 saves it as a tank main myself) anyways random rant/maybe unneeded rant mode off.

[Capheira]

In a dungeon, tank gets shitty because target focus is all over the place. Ask them to "Please mark their targets" and get an earful about how it's not necessary in 'lower level dungeons' and that we'd know what to attack if we paid attention. Attempting to point out it was a courteous thing to do, particularly if there are targeting issues in harder to see mobs resulted in condescending abuse. Lovely.

[Valence]

If he's not willing to provide marked targets since it's like, his job and all, then he can switch to tanking stance and do his full pull job, is my stance on that most of the times. Fed up with spoiled brat tanks that want to go faster in DPS mode without giving themselves the means to do it because of lazyness.

[Gegenji]

If he's not willing to provide marked targets since it's like, his job and all, then he can switch to tanking stance and do his full pull job, is my stance on that most of the times. Fed up with spoiled brat tanks that want to go faster in DPS mode without giving themselves the means to do it because of lazyness.

 

Only time I'm in DPS stand in a dungeon as a tank is on bosses, and usually after having been in tanking stance long enough to establish a good amount of enmity. With WAR, it's usually after popping Unchained and Berserk and both have worn off. So that's a good 15 seconds or so hitting hard with increased enmity generation. Have yet to have someone pull aggro off me unless a healer HoT'd me before the pull or someone ran ahead and aggroed it on their own.

 

... Both of which are annoying, by the way.

[Valence]

To be clear I have nothing against tanks willing to go full DPS if they can manage the enmity and all!

[Warren Castille]

I complained about this on LS and in RPChat but I'm still salty about it:

 

There's zero reason for tanks to be sucking up sparks in Ramuh HM, especially after Judgment Bolt. People need those to break tethers, which are definitely still a threat! I've had repeat instances of mouthbreathing tanks running around to grab them all on spawn, regardless of others needing them or giving a fuck about cleaving a group on the way.

[Momo]

I have noticed that Ramuh in general is a sticking point for some, when I think really Titan or Levi should be that more.  The thing that has really gotten to me in Ramuh after the 7 farms it took to get me SMN weapon, is that people still try to emphasize 2 tanks, when in fact, 2 healers is what makes it easier.  Luckily that thought is quickly dismissed when we try with one healer and two tanks and it fails or takes 12 minutes to complete, as opposed to when we then grab that second healer and take it down to one tank or one MT, and it is completed in less than five every single time, we few or no deaths.

 

Luckily, sometimes people learn?

[Tyndles]

I joined a Thordan EX party.  It was stated that it was a learning party so I'm cool with the wipes, we are learning and it's all good.  But after half an hour or so, one of the guys berates people for placing the dragoon jumps improperly, and then for the next 3 pulls he doesn't even BUDGE, doesn't even ATTEMPT to move the dragoons when he gets marked.

 

I felt kinda bad, but it was 1am and I was getting cranky, so I thanked people for their time and left.

[Gegenji]

Most of my groups have been pretty decent of late - a few outright fun. So this is more of an annoyance complaint more than anything else.

 

Doing the new Amdapor HM dungeon in my Expert roulette (as tank) and get the new player notification. One of the DPS is new, okay cool. We get to the first boss, he asks "anything I should know?" So I tell him about moving and looking away from Psionic Shwarma or whatever that move is that makes the clones.

 

We pull. Every time it happens, his clone is pointed straight at us and I have to move the boss. End up getting a few of the debuffs and cutting it close a couple times because of it. After the third time or so, nearing the boss' death, I remind him "Hey, make sure to look away when that casts!"

 

He replies: "Sorry, didn't know."

 

Not the worst thing in the world but still kind of grating. I TOLD you what to do before we pulled! Did you ask and then just immediately ignore what I said? Blah.

[Aaron]

I have thirty expanse totems.

 

My rant is self explanatory

[Caspar]

In a dungeon, tank gets shitty because target focus is all over the place. Ask them to "Please mark their targets" and get an earful about how it's not necessary in 'lower level dungeons' and that we'd know what to attack if we paid attention. Attempting to point out it was a courteous thing to do, particularly if there are targeting issues in harder to see mobs resulted in condescending abuse. Lovely.

My policy on this is, if you don't mark, you're signalling you're confident you can keep agro regardless of the target. They should aoe, rotate targets, etc. Neither should there be a need for marks either; any dps who made it this far should know what to focus or otherwise be fine with taking a few lumps if they're off the tank's target. It's why I never complain unless the tank cant hold aggro on a single boss. Because I am habitually overgeared and never slow down my dps by choice, I expect to rip hate once or twice. Some tanks feel their pride sting if they lose aggro, but it happens and they have ways to deal with it. There's no point in them getting mad.

 

For me it's not a vent, but there was a hilarious monk who stopped to explain every fight to a party with no first timers. (I explained I was an alt) He dropped his stacks and stood in AOE to explain and "promote good teamwork" and while I found this quasi griefing funny (Even if voluntarily losing GL buff is heresy) and so did the Warrior, the healer was livid and the last boss turned into a yelling match while we did all the work and tried to defuse things.

[Kellach Woods]

I experienced what was likely the worst Antitower group I’ve ever found. So, most of you know I don’t do a lot of content. Lately, I’ve had to work almost 60 hour weeks, to the point where I worked non-stop in December from, well, the end of November to the 24th. And only recently has that gotten to a more reasonable schedule.

 

As such, I’m very, VERY undergeared. Geared enough to do Expert but not geared enough to randomly ignore hits - I have to rotate my cooldowns and some of them are very useless vs. certain monsters. (You can’t parry Fire but they sure can crit you if you’re not in the right position!)

 

So when I see, say, a AST do Painflare over and over and over again when I’m standing there at 3k HP silently praying this isn’t a stun-immune mob so I can get a 3 second respite that one of my cooldowns (and my self-heal) can get active, I’m not a fan.

 

When I see the Concussion debuff go down from 9 seconds to nothing while I have to eat a full Odious Croak (and a bubble because if I had positioned it so that I would be safe from the bubbles, one of the mages would need to move - considering I need things burst down fast I can’t do that, so gotta take the hit), I feel someone isn’t doing their job (and that’s… entirely way too common. Esuna/Leeches/whatever ASTs have, guys. If you’re healers you should know what these are!)

 

When I see a FROGGED MAGE refuse to move because “but muh leylines” taking Water Bombs to the dome rather than doing the frog dance, I get (reasonably) angry.

 

When I see the two Black Mages not move to the front to at least get some damage done on Calcabrena during Brace, I’m a bit iffy about their performance. When I see them KEEP CASTING REGARDLESS is when I start crying.

 

And when I see my health bar not moving because I already used my self-heals, after TWO Knockouts on Calcabrena, that’s when I conclude I hate everyone involved in this scenario. Them for the whole thing, myself for not eating the deserter debuff and noping out.

 

For real, if you don’t wanna heal, don’t queue as healer. If you don’t wanna move, queue as Tank. If you don’t wanna deal with these type of people…

 

Don’t queue at all.

 

In fact as soon as I get the Ifrit Chest Window that’s probably what I’m going to do. Midas sounds fun, but I don’t wanna deal with that shit.

[Warren Castille]

Twelve almighty, that sounds like a train wreck.

[Aaron]

Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

 

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

[Kellach Woods]

Twelve almighty, that sounds like a train wreck.

 

That we actually MANAGED to finish the dungeon is nothing short of a miracle.

 

Also, after that, let's duty roulette into Sephirot, which I hadn't done yet.

 

Last night was not good night

[Valence]

Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

 

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

 

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

 

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).

[Ferus Ironlash]

Ah hell, I'll put one down here:

 

People who have healer classes leveled and still don't switch to them in Frontlines rustles me. Like, two healers per group shouldn't be a hard thing to do. Especially if there's four Summoners in the party. Gear isn't even an excuse, considering that literally anything i150 and up can be used. And then we get into fights and lose because we only have two healers across 24 people.

 

Tl;dr: I just want my damn coat.

[Aaron]

Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

 

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

 

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

 

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).

15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

 

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

[Lonicera]

I joined a DF group last week that was a real gem.  It was a low-level dungeon (Toto-rak, I think?  Maybe Halatali?) and I was running Johari through to level.  I was still below 30 at this point so I had a heal and Stoneskin equipped for solo grinds.  It was a good thing I did...

 

Our tank was clearly an endgame guy - he had all of the flashy gear and a fancy axe that he kept flashing around.  Oh, and he refused to use Overpower.  Or attack more than one mob at a time.  Even if two mobs out of a group of three would suddenly pile on the poor healer.

 

The second DPS, a rogue, spent more time jumping around and running past the creatures than actually hitting them.

 

The healer, although trying their best, was new and not really equipped to handle a group like this.  Though they definitely got my commendation when it was all done.

 

I spent the entire run acting as secondary tank, DPS, and often a back-up healer.  Thank goodness I had Stoneskin still equipped, because I had to use it after every pull. 

 

At least I got all 3 commendations after it was done...  :dazed:

[Valence]

I guess tank and rogue were both ashamed of themselves... 8-)

[Kellach Woods]

15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

 

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

You're also gonna run out of TP/MP (for DRKs) that much faster.

[Valence]

Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

 

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

 

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

 

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).

15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

 

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

 

Mathematically not correct though. 20% of 15% amounts to 3% total. Crits or not crits.

 

I'm not saying that it's not going slower without it, but that sounds very, very negligible. If things are slow, then it's the DPS and/or the heal not doing their jobs properly, or as I said, the tank being super squishy.

 

But anyway. Yeah. Why would a DRK not use all his tools....

[Aaron]

Was in a party with a DRK yesterday who refused to use Dark side because quote unquote "It burns mp T_T"

 

If you're going to be a tank, fucking use the role right dps was slow because you were doing nothing but spamming unleash and doing -20% damage the while.

 

Not saying that he wasn't being bad and all, but losing 20% DPS on your tank is almost negligible and should maybe account for like 20% of 15% of your total DPS members (which is ridiculous and you shouldn't even be able to notice).

 

No, if your DPS was that slow, then you don't have to look further than your DPS members, and/or if your healer wasn't DPSing at all (maybe busy healing a squishy tank too?).

15 - 20% of 15% of dps is still a lot, especially when I ask a tank in GRIT & Dark side can hit a 3k crit every blue moon and average around 600 or higher dps. Let your next tank only spam nothing but their aggro aoe in tank stance and you'll easily notice everything dies slower.

 

Even if your dps is a ninja and a summoner

 

Mathematically not correct though. 20% of 15% amounts to 3% total. Crits or not crits.

 

I'm not saying that it's not going slower without it, but that sounds very, very negligible. If things are slow, then it's the DPS and/or the heal not doing their jobs properly, or as I said, the tank being super squishy.

 

But anyway. Yeah. Why would a DRK not use all his tools....

It SOUNDS negligible, but it not. There's a very distinct difference between a DRK using Dark side & GRIT dpsing with everyone, and a DRK spamming nothing but unleash while you got a single target and a summoner. I know this because I've tanked and dpsed before.

[Valence]

So... after hearing horror stories from FC mates on how they met an 'icemage' in the Aery, and then a monk that was only spamming forbidden chakra, I queue up for my daily leveling for my own monk...

 

Wondering what will be the other DPS in the party while starting up Amdapor Keep Hard, I notice that the icon is not quite right... Pugilist. So, having a hard time believing it, I ask him if he forgot to put his soulstone or something... No answer. The heal is also a bit stunned to see that.

 

I examine the guy and... Well yeah. level 59 pugilist, no job level...

 

I facepalm hard when I see him aggroing the mobs before the tank, and then first boss, same, which of course leads to a wipe in less than 15sec.

 

Well, we kicked him instantly after but... Why dude. Why.