Post here if you want to be a brat

[Delilah Scythewood]

I do the same thing. The written down part is what confuses some people because it's taking something that normally calculates itself in your head almost automatically and trying to map it out step by step. When I helped my fifteen year old sister with her schooling? It was a nightmare.

 

It's self-awareness. The idea is that once kids make the connection (and the writing down part may be necessary for a lot of kids to get it - just not all, which is where the alternative teaching strategies and having a diversified approach comes in), they will be better equipped to confidently apply the theory to much more complex problems. If they don't understand the methods thoroughly, there's a high likelihood that they will misapply methods to problems where it isn't appropriate (this is something that actually happens). It's absolutely sound.

Right, but what I'm mostly focusing on is those who have struggled this whole time even with good teachers and guides and who still don't get it. Yet that's what the school dictates they be taught, so it's what they're taught. It's now the implemented norm and is imposed upon everyone.

 

I'm not arguing it's not beneficial. I'm arguing that it's pretty shitty to force teachers to teach a certain way when as long as students find the best ways to come to the right answers at the end, should it even matter the method? You're there to learn how to solve problems, so why restrict their abilities to thrive by strong arming them into a single method that many still don't get?

 

I get the basic reasoning behind it. But after helping kids do some of these problems, I can see why so many are frustrated and talking with people who teach it hasn't helped my feelings on it.

[Naunet]

The method itself is not the problem. Diverse teaching strategies doesn't mean teach to a different curriculum, just to approach the method in a different way. Perhaps writing out the steps does nothing for one student (there are many kids who have varying levels of dysgraphia that often, sadly, goes undiagnosed though it can be countered given time), but perhaps manipulating tiles to illustrate the method makes things suddenly clear.

 

You're taking issue with the wrong part of the equation, so to speak.

[Enteris]

Indeed, which is where my next thought is "Why force it on the kids who can't grasp it? As long as they're learning how why not just let the kids who get Common Core use that and the ones who can't use a different method or the old one?"

 

But one of the problems is it's been Common Core or gtfo for some of these schools. Which I cringe at so hard I want to turtle inside my hoodie that they're laying down the law for how a child should learn something and restricting their use of creativity and growth because 'our way is best way'.

 

This pretty handily sums up my opinion on the matter.

 

Taking my personal experience of learning multiplication (many many years ago).. as I recall, I learned to multiply by taking my knowledge of addition, and counting by the number. So...

 

6x4... I'd either count by 6's or 4's until I got my answer.

4 8 12 16 20 24

or 

6 12 18 24

 

Granted, over time, I'd memorized everything up to 12x12, but not by looking at a chart. I did it by doing the problems.

 

Except for 9s. 9s, I taught myself a trick that, at that time, made it faster and easier for me. The trick was to take whatever other number 9 was being multiplied with, take 1 away from it, then add it up to 9 again. So..

 

9 x 7

Take 1 from 7 = 6

6 + ? = 9   3

My answer is 63.

 

Was that 9 trick taught in my classes? No. Is it the correct answer? Yes.

 

The biggest issue to me is forcing students (and teachers) to look at problems this way as the only way. As long as the student is capable of getting the correct answer and, if necessary, show their work and that works makes sense... then back off and let the student do their thing.

 

----------------

 

As to the actual name of the thread... parents that do not discipline their children... at all....

 

*adds wood to the fire*

[Kage]

 

 

As to the actual name of the thread... parents that do not discipline their children... at all....

 

*adds wood to the fire*

And then get mad at schools for doing a good job of it (or not) NO ONE EVER WINS

[Shayrei]

 

 

As to the actual name of the thread... parents that do not discipline their children... at all....

 

*adds wood to the fire*

And then get mad at schools for doing a good job of it (or not) NO ONE EVER WINS

 

And thus the circle is complete.

[Geisterfuchs]

This reminds me so much of:

 

UIKGV2cTgqA

[Kellach Woods]

if, y'know, the ideal of "math makes you want to take it simple" made its idea into the school I attended, I might not have hated it enough to hold my 20% grade to my teacher's face as a badge of honor that I gave zero fucks about her class and made off like a bandit with my high school diploma anyway.

[Delilah Scythewood]

The method itself is not the problem. Diverse teaching strategies doesn't mean teach to a different curriculum, just to approach the method in a different way. Perhaps writing out the steps does nothing for one student (there are many kids who have varying levels of dysgraphia that often, sadly, goes undiagnosed though it can be countered given time), but perhaps manipulating tiles to illustrate the method makes things suddenly clear.

 

You're taking issue with the wrong part of the equation, so to speak.

Again, will have to politely disagree with you

 

From the conversations with both my cousin and aunt from their teaching Common Core in the classroom, the problem with the students is the diverse teaching strategy itself. Like I said before "Why are we taking ten extra steps to solve a problem I learned how to do in three?". Or, to digress further, why are we forcing this to now be the general norm in the classroom, especially for the kids who are in tears of frustration trying to understand it?

 

There's very little flexibility. They've spent the last...I think they said for their respective districts one to two years slowly overhauling and sending teachers to conventions, classes, and giving them guides and videos on how to teach this new system. That this is how they must teach their kids to solve these problems or it reflects poorly on the teachers and on the schools.

 

It doesn't seem to matter how it's presented. Whether you break it down into steps, use flashcards, or whatever other teaching tools that suit each child better to their learning needs. That, from what I've seen, is being done to fit the needs of the child in the classroom already as long as they ask for help.

 

It's the process itself that they are struggling with, and it's the process that is currently being forced into the classrooms and onto the students. In the real world, when presented with complex problems, I (and others I'm sure as well) am going to use the method that is easiest and most comfortable for me. The one that gives me the correct answer the fastest with as little error as possible.

 

For some it might be Common Core. For others? Not. I still don't think it's right for it to be "this way or no way", which is what it's started to turn into. Seems a little too controlling for me.

[Erik Mynhier]

I'm hoping this doesn't become a cesspool of political hot topics.

 

But... I want to rant about how ludicrous this is.

 

http://instagram.com/p/tip3MSN0-T/

Example above says: Tell how to make 10 when adding 8+5.

 

Example above sounds just like. BS in EE. Advanced mathematics. THE SIMPLE APPROACH.

 

Everything I see about common core mathematics makes me want to puke.

 

Also google's first suggestion when I typed in "common core" was "common core is stupid"

 

You know me so well and I'm at work.

 

Where is decade 117? This isn't logarithmic plots, number lines are to scale, and scales must be linear and equal. Jack don't know jack about number lines.

[Mae]

The backlash has been unnecessarily exacerbated by adults who refuse to accept that maybe the way they learned things was not the best and are determined to keep their kids in the dark. It's honestly rather disturbing to me that a lot of the argument against Common Core standards boils down to, "I didn't need to know this, so neither does my kid." What a stagnant view of education! Education is a science, and as such the techniques used to deliver it will change over time - just as our understanding of the world changes over time. Everyone would be much better off if they accepted that fact.

 

Honestly, the guy with a BS in Electronics Engineering who couldn't understand that rather simple homework problem was likely suffering from his own stubbornness and preconceived notions of how things should work. I'm a teacher, so I don't really like calling people "stupid" (at least when it comes to how they understand things), but he was rather blind.

I can't presume to be in the parent's mind, but I'd be willing to wager (based on my own reaction to seeing Common Core the first time) that it was less "stubbornness" "wanting to keep kids in the dark" and more "good parent wanting to help a struggling child with their math homework, but can't because overly-complicated new rules and superfluous steps to what is a simple math problem." 

 

Which seems to be the heart of MOST of the arguments being made against Common Core by parents: they cannot help their children who are already struggling with Common Core with their homework. The parent is sitting there, they can see the simple solution that really only requires a bag of beans to demonstrate the logic of it, but the child is telling them that they have to do it this other way or they'll get it wrong.

 

The only solution schools that use Common Core have (if schools even acknowledge the issue -and- offer a solution) seems to be "Hey, Parents! Come in three days a week after school for the next couple months and we'll teach you Common Core, too!", which isn't a viable solution for most parents. And it's not a case of this not being viable because they're being stubborn, but because they have jobs -- they need to work to provide, and taking time off could mean the difference between keeping a job and losing that job.

[Naunet]

At the end of the day, it comes down to a disagreement over the value of the method. I've explained - and many mathematicians have explained - why the math methods taught in Common Core standards are miles beyond others in terms of imparting a deep understanding of the subject. A kid having trouble adjusting to a new way of thinking is not a bad thing and is to be expected, and given time that kid will adjust and be better off for it.

 

The 9x trick mentioned earlier is just that - a trick. It doesn't actually give you an understanding of the reasons behind why multiplication works the way it is. It is nothing more than a tool to assist in memorization. And the entire point of the Common Core standards is to pull away from memorization and move closer to a curriculum based on critical thinking. When I teach my 6th graders a new concept, I sure as heck care about how they get to their answers. Faulty reasoning can lead to some serious misconceptions later down the line, and the best way to avoid that is making sure the base understanding is as sound as possible.

[Delilah Scythewood]

The backlash has been unnecessarily exacerbated by adults who refuse to accept that maybe the way they learned things was not the best and are determined to keep their kids in the dark. It's honestly rather disturbing to me that a lot of the argument against Common Core standards boils down to, "I didn't need to know this, so neither does my kid." What a stagnant view of education! Education is a science, and as such the techniques used to deliver it will change over time - just as our understanding of the world changes over time. Everyone would be much better off if they accepted that fact.

 

Honestly, the guy with a BS in Electronics Engineering who couldn't understand that rather simple homework problem was likely suffering from his own stubbornness and preconceived notions of how things should work. I'm a teacher, so I don't really like calling people "stupid" (at least when it comes to how they understand things), but he was rather blind.

I can't presume to be in the parent's mind, but I'd be willing to wager (based on my own reaction to seeing Common Core the first time) that it was less "stubbornness" "wanting to keep kids in the dark" and more "good parent wanting to help a struggling child with their math homework, but can't because overly-complicated new rules and superfluous steps to what is a simple math problem." 

 

Which seems to be the heart of MOST of the arguments being made against Common Core by parents: they cannot help their children who are already struggling with Common Core with their homework. The parent is sitting there, they can see the simple solution that really only requires a bag of beans to demonstrate the logic of it, but the child is telling them that they have to do it this other way or they'll get it wrong.

 Pretty much the last sentence Mae just said is part of my problem with it.

 

And Naunet, I doubt that's what parents are trying to say at all that "I didn't need to know this, so neither does my kid." I think a lot of it is how it's being presented and how it's a success for some and not so much for others. I had to learn different approaches to mathematics myself in order to understand it, and if I hadn't had a teacher early on that gave me the gift of following methods that went outside of what was *airquotes* 'required' to be taught in order to help me succeed, I wouldn't enjoy math as much as I've come to at this juncture in my life.

[Delilah Scythewood]

A kid having trouble adjusting to a new way of thinking is not a bad thing and is to be expected, and given time that kid will adjust and be better off for it.

 Also was doing my post when you made this response so I missed a reply And true, you have a point. It isn't. Though for those who still aren't getting it after a year like my sister, I feel bad for how she's still stuck beating a dead horse.

[Perth]

Edit: For some reason I thought this was like the PUG group rant thread. IIIII'm gonna skedaddle out of here, my reading comprehension's out of whack today. :'D that'sembarassingI'msorryKage

[Ha'uruh Nunh]

Let's see... I hate how hypocrite the politicians of my country (Italy) are being in relation to the terroristic attack in Paris. Everyone is Charlie Hebdo now, and apparently they forgot of all the satirical stand-up comedians, journalists and reporters they banned and fired from TV channels (all our main TV channels are owned by politicians, 3 to the Left and 3 to Silvio Berlusconi (who belongs to the Right) supposedly, but the co-director of the Left's TV channels is also a secretary to Berlusconi so you can guess who has the monopoly in the end), all because they dared talking of the church, of the politics, of how corrupted our government is, and most of all, of Berlusconi. You can read all of his crap on the wiki if you want, from his passion for minor prostitutes, how abuse of power for personal affairs, his fiscal evasion etc. He'll put any gangster you've had in the US to shame.

 

Thank goodness there's the Internet, or Italy would have no satire left to be seen.

 

And yet, today every one of our politicians shows off his Je Suis Charlie banner. It's fucking disgusting.

 

Not to randomly go back to Charlie Hebdo and take away from the Common Core complaints, but this post stuck out to me.

 

I hated how the Pope felt the need to weigh in and say that religion should be above politics. The editor of Charlie Hebdo made it clear that they satirize religion when it gets involved with politics - which is often. The Pope seems to want a "get out of jail free" card when it comes to being "above satire", yet the Pope wants to also weigh in on the morality of governments, democratic decisions, etc. While in general I feel the Pope is a good man and far better than the last one, all he did in stating that religion should be free from satire is arm the Islamist protestors.

 

People died in anti-Charlie protesting/rioting in northern Africa this past weekend, using the Pope's own words, because they feel any graphical depiction of the Prophet, especially in a satirical way, is blasphemous. As long as we continue to say that anything is above satire - and Charlie has lampooned/satirized things I value as well - then we're giving ammunition to those who wish to suppress and distort free speech. There should be no limits on freedom of expression, so long as the message isn't directly inciting violence.

 

We'll have to see if the media ends up continuing to self-censor in order to prevent being a target for terrorism. It's very worrisome to think that, in 5-10 years, events like Charlie Hebdo or The Interview might whitewash art and journalism.

[Sounsyy]

So for breakfast I was scrounging around and found some bagels out from the week before. I didn't know which bagels were left so I grabbed some. Turns out the one I'm eating is a chocolate chip bagel. And because I wasn't aware it was a chocolate chip bagel, I put lox on it.

[Kage]

I don't think I could stomach that D:

[Illira]

I'm being reminded now of when I once covered pancakes with parmesan cheese by accident... I'd thought it was powdered sugar and kept putting more on because I was so confused by why it didn't look right.

 

You have my sympathies Sounsyy. Chocolate and lox are not meant to go together.

[Kage]

I'm very much imagining that the combination of chocolate and lox is very much not like chocolate and bacon.

[Steel Wolf]

So one of the "best" parts of the job I do? When people approach my phone line flexing more swag than they actually own.

 

I work a reservations line at a casino, by the way...and lemme tell you a little secret. If you call me, I already know more about you than you think. I know about your spending. I know what you got, when, from whom, and what you've been doing with it.

 

So when you're coming to me with a 16 year-old's voice, claiming to be a VIP player? Don't be shocked when the Presidential Suite you're asking for smacks you in the mouth with a $3000/night pricetag.

 

Mr. Pit 2 roulette player who visited four different tables for a total of five minutes each.

 

Try again, sweetie.

[Aaron]

Im good at doing math in my head.

 

I took the SATs math part without a calculator or scratch paper, still got a decent score on it it even if barely.

 

That was about 5 or something years ago though. Ever since then I never have touched another math test.

[Zyrusticae]

Come to think of it, I remember taking a "number sense" class in middle school that taught me a lot of really neat ways to work with and think about numbers, which I imagine is somewhat related to common core math.

 

In some ways the change was a long time coming, really. We already had elements of it being taught in specialized classes. They just weren't core curriculum yet.

[Kage]

I had phonics.

[Zyrusticae]

I'm being reminded now of when I once covered pancakes with parmesan cheese by accident... I'd thought it was powdered sugar and kept putting more on because I was so confused by why it didn't look right.

That's...

 

That's not Parmesan cheese. That powdered crap is like... I don't even know what it is, but it ain't Parmigiano-Reggiano.

 

I'm kind of resentful that the FDA has allowed sellers to outright lie to consumers about stuff like that. It's really weird. Same thing with Champagne (which, in other parts of the world, is only made in Champagne but, again, the FDA lets sellers lie to consumers). They're basically selling you imitation crap that has only the slightest of relation to the real thing.

 

Real Parmigiano-Reggiano is so far and away superior to the fake, powdered crap that it's utterly criminal that people associate the name with it. It can be a bit expensive and you might have to order it online but, gods damn it, the real stuff is INCREDIBLY SUPERIOR.

 

Figured I may as well rant about this since the thread is ranty anyway.

[C'kayah Polaali]

I'm being reminded now of when I once covered pancakes with parmesan cheese by accident... I'd thought it was powdered sugar and kept putting more on because I was so confused by why it didn't look right.

That's...

 

That's not Parmesan cheese. That powdered crap is like... I don't even know what it is, but it ain't Parmigiano-Reggiano.

 

I like you!

 

And yes, if that's your only experience with "parmesan" cheese, you owe it to yourself to go buy a chunk of the real thing. Yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum yum.