Kinono Posted February 13, 2015 Share #26 Posted February 13, 2015 The no gil for art thing is stupid. Stupid but understandable. But how is casinos and raffles "RMT?" I hate them as much as the next person but SE may need a refresher on what RMT stands for. My old GW2 guild used to have IC hide and seek tournaments with huge gold pools, would that be considered RMT too? Why stomp down on stupid fun? How dare we as as players extend the life of your game for you! To clarify: SE is against the explicit trade of in-game earned things for real-world items. The casino mini-game is just /random and betting, which doesn't impact the real world. The hide-and-seek tournaments are similar. SE got their first grey area over this with the Bond bracelets but they figured it wasn't a big enough deal to do anything about. Well, nothing but a "could u not." Link to comment
Virella Posted February 13, 2015 Share #27 Posted February 13, 2015 As an artist I'm not surprised. It is a massive bummer though for people with not that much cash to spend irl, not capable of spending, or simply not wanting to spend irl currency onto art. Also a bummer for artists who had this as their ingame income. But I have to agree. Trying to 'settle' and argument between artist and client over gil means that SE has to judge an ingame economy (what is hugely different per server as well) and the skill/time/effort the artist has put into it. Art is one of those things you cannot price, but the artist him/herself. Nothing holds artists back from doing it though. Just as with parsers, as long you do not mention them ingame, you can get away with it. Cannot blame the site for not wishing to step onto SE toes though and banning advertisement of it. It -could- get them in trouble after all. Link to comment
SessionZero Posted February 13, 2015 Share #28 Posted February 13, 2015 Still gonna offer the service, just on the down-low. I have a lot of FC members who have already asked me for art in exchange for gil. 1v1 me irl SE. 1 Link to comment
Branson Thorne Posted February 13, 2015 Share #29 Posted February 13, 2015 C'mon now, everyone already knew this. I don't get why everyone acts so surprised? Link to comment
FreelanceWizard Posted February 13, 2015 Author Share #30 Posted February 13, 2015 Cannot blame the site for not wishing to step onto SE toes though and banning advertisement of it. It -could- get them in trouble after all. Exactly so. The reason we can use the images we do (and even have the name we do!) is because we're authorized by Square-Enix under a license. That license doesn't permit us to promote prohibited activities. Is it likely that someone from SE would come by here, collect names, and drop a subpoena or DMCA takedown on my head? No, but we want to stay on the up-and-up with regards to SE's legal department. It's an individual's choice how they want to proceed given this LGM's ruling; it just can't be advertised here. We don't monitor PMs and we don't provide information to third parties except as required by law or in a very limited way to deal with harassment issues. So, take that as you will and proceed accordingly. Canary: We have not received any requests from Square-Enix's legal department. #magicAdminHat 1 Link to comment
C'kayah Polaali Posted February 13, 2015 Share #31 Posted February 13, 2015 Shall we start a barter market for art? That's not gil! Holy shit that is an excellent idea. Headshot: .5 Riviera Canopy Beds Bust: 1 Riviera Canopy Beds Full Body: 1.75 Riviera Canopy Beds Color Options: 10-20 HQ Sachertortes depending on MB fluctuations etc etc etc SE will never know! Art for "Allagan currency" it has a static conversion and counts as an item, not currency. Not a bad idea. Elite Dangerous doesn't have a way to give money from one player to another, so some people transfer wealth with expensive trade items. This is the same thing, really. Link to comment
Melodia Posted February 13, 2015 Share #32 Posted February 13, 2015 Policy makes me really sad because I cannot afford real money. I just can't. Art is a luxury for me and with two mouths to feed beside myself, it's something I can't justify. Gil...that's something I can do. Thanks SE. *slaps* 1 Link to comment
Elaris Posted February 13, 2015 Share #33 Posted February 13, 2015 This is too bad as I did prefer the gil payment over actual money. The money paid with a Canadian pay pal account unfortunately adds up as the Canadian dollar is not so great right now but regardless it will not affect me too much. However the barter system does sound like it could work out quite well, even more so for the crafters out there. Link to comment
Berrod Armstrong Posted February 13, 2015 Share #34 Posted February 13, 2015 Policy makes me really sad because I cannot afford real money. I just can't. Art is a luxury for me and with two mouths to feed beside myself, it's something I can't justify. Gil...that's something I can do. Thanks SE. *slaps* But Melodia! If someone wants to give you some free art, and at some point, you wish to give them some free gil -- all very quietly, of course...I don't think you have to spend any real money at all! Link to comment
Gegenji Posted February 13, 2015 Share #35 Posted February 13, 2015 Policy makes me really sad because I cannot afford real money. I just can't. Art is a luxury for me and with two mouths to feed beside myself, it's something I can't justify. Gil...that's something I can do. Thanks SE. *slaps* But Melodia! If someone wants to give you some free art, and at some point, you wish to give them some free gil -- all very quietly, of course...I don't think you have to spend any real money at all! What, you're willing to pay 400k gil for this potion? My oh my, why would I pass up such a wonderful business proposition for myself? Seriously, RMT still happens and that's far worse than art sales, in my opinion. I'm sure workarounds will be found and just kept on the down-low. It's just a matter of such a public thing as a forums to stick to the rules lest it incur SE's wrath. Link to comment
Kage Posted February 13, 2015 Share #36 Posted February 13, 2015 It's always been against the ToS. I guess they just started taking it more seriously. =/ All the casino stuff in Mor Dhona and in-game raffles are considered "RMT," as well, just as a heads up. Incorrect about Casinos. They are allowed. A mod posted about this on the official forums. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/214616-random-and-the-impending-influx-of-player-run-casinos.?p=2713021#post2713021 "As for casinos, they are treated like trade agreements. This means that you should ensure clear rules are agreed upon in the game before engaging in this type of agreement, since the GMs can only enforce the terms of the agreement that was made in the game. So long as the agreement is upheld, the GMs should not need to get involved. If you do not feel that the agreement is upheld, you should report that to a GM for investigation for Fraud." If you have set rules and you -follow- the rules and don't commit fraud you are ok. Just because some people didn't see it. Clearly what I need to do is buy roleplay with gil. And no one will ever see the beautiful fanart that is produced somewhere and shown. The roleplayer just so happens to be the artist. *nod* Link to comment
Shizuka Posted February 13, 2015 Share #37 Posted February 13, 2015 It's always been against the ToS. I guess they just started taking it more seriously. =/ All the casino stuff in Mor Dhona and in-game raffles are considered "RMT," as well, just as a heads up. Incorrect about Casinos. They are allowed. A mod posted about this on the official forums. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/214616-random-and-the-impending-influx-of-player-run-casinos.?p=2713021#post2713021 "As for casinos, they are treated like trade agreements. This means that you should ensure clear rules are agreed upon in the game before engaging in this type of agreement, since the GMs can only enforce the terms of the agreement that was made in the game. So long as the agreement is upheld, the GMs should not need to get involved. If you do not feel that the agreement is upheld, you should report that to a GM for investigation for Fraud." If you have set rules and you -follow- the rules and don't commit fraud you are ok. Just because some people didn't see it. Clearly what I need to do is buy roleplay with gil. And no one will ever see the beautiful fanart that is produced somewhere and shown. The roleplayer just so happens to be the artist. *nod* I would be surprised if the "casinos" are actually allowed, considering their TOU explicitly states: You may not conduct any illegal activities whatsoever in connection with the Game. This includes every illegal activity not specifically highlighted above, including without limitation gambling, defamation, harassment, and fraud. (emphasis mine) If a GM has stated elsewhere that it's acceptable, then I suspect they haven't fully read their own TOU. That being said, I also doubt it's something they'll actively chase down and ban people over; but if it's reported they might stick those people in the jail for a talking to. It's something I'd be REALLY careful about participating in. Link to comment
LiveVoltage Posted February 13, 2015 Share #38 Posted February 13, 2015 It's only illegal if you gamble with real money, real life things in the game I think. If it's just gil, I dont think they will get upset over that. Considering a GM stated that gambling with gil is okay as long as all party's agree. Link to comment
Shizuka Posted February 13, 2015 Share #39 Posted February 13, 2015 The place where it gets tricky is that gambling laws (including those that apply to internet gambling AND fake money) vary so much not only country to country, but state to state. I wouldn't touch it myself, since the TOU doesn't clarify and I know of people getting spoken to by a GM in other games for running the same thing they're doing in Mor Dhona. I'm pretty sure that one is a standard for most (if not all) MMOs. Link to comment
Nebbs Posted February 13, 2015 Share #40 Posted February 13, 2015 It's always been against the ToS. I guess they just started taking it more seriously. =/ All the casino stuff in Mor Dhona and in-game raffles are considered "RMT," as well, just as a heads up. Incorrect about Casinos. They are allowed. A mod posted about this on the official forums. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/214616-random-and-the-impending-influx-of-player-run-casinos.?p=2713021#post2713021 "As for casinos, they are treated like trade agreements. This means that you should ensure clear rules are agreed upon in the game before engaging in this type of agreement, since the GMs can only enforce the terms of the agreement that was made in the game. So long as the agreement is upheld, the GMs should not need to get involved. If you do not feel that the agreement is upheld, you should report that to a GM for investigation for Fraud." If you have set rules and you -follow- the rules and don't commit fraud you are ok. Just because some people didn't see it. Clearly what I need to do is buy roleplay with gil. And no one will ever see the beautiful fanart that is produced somewhere and shown. The roleplayer just so happens to be the artist. *nod* Buy an IC/in-game thing with IC/in-game gil, and then use the art as the ooc embellishment. So a crafted item like you say above. Or just create Art RP (ARP) Link to comment
Warren Castille Posted February 13, 2015 Share #41 Posted February 13, 2015 I'm partial to the idea of potions and animal hides suddenly becoming worth 500k. Link to comment
K'nahli Posted February 13, 2015 Share #42 Posted February 13, 2015 I don't really understand why they need to make this against the ToS. Unlike botters who use unauthorized programs to repeatedly horde and collect mass amounts of IG items, art trades are paid for by legitimate currency. Unless this falls - vaguely - under some other direction and then can't find a way/don't want to rewrite it to allow art, then it makes zero sense to me as to why they can suddenly tell me how (not) to spend my gil - so long as it does not endorse activities such as those associated with RMTers. Link to comment
Kage Posted February 13, 2015 Share #43 Posted February 13, 2015 Or just create Art RP (ARP) "Paint me like one of your Eorzean cat-girls!" *hands gil* Link to comment
Geisterfuchs Posted February 13, 2015 Share #44 Posted February 13, 2015 I don't really understand why they need to make this against the ToS. Unlike botters who use unauthorized programs to repeatedly horde and collect mass amounts of IG items, art trades are paid for by legitimate currency. Unless this falls - vaguely - under some other direction and then can't find a way/don't want to rewrite it to allow art, then it makes zero sense to me as to why they can suddenly tell me how (not) to spend my gil - so long as it does not endorse activities such as those associated with RMTers. To be the advocatus diaboli: RMTers could claim they did not sell those gil for money, they received art for it. Pretty hard to disprove. 1 Link to comment
K'nahli Posted February 13, 2015 Share #45 Posted February 13, 2015 I don't really understand why they need to make this against the ToS. Unlike botters who use unauthorized programs to repeatedly horde and collect mass amounts of IG items, art trades are paid for by legitimate currency. Unless this falls - vaguely - under some other direction and then can't find a way/don't want to rewrite it to allow art, then it makes zero sense to me as to why they can suddenly tell me how (not) to spend my gil - so long as it does not endorse activities such as those associated with RMTers. To be the advocatus diaboli: RMTers could claim they did not sell those gil for money, they received art for it. Pretty hard to disprove. Ahhh, I see. That was quite simple actually *amused* Thank you. Link to comment
Dravus Posted February 13, 2015 Share #46 Posted February 13, 2015 Their game, their rules. I don't particularly agree with it but let's not pretend as if is the first bizarre stance that the developers have taken. It's also why more people should make a genuine effort to familiarise themselves with the terms of service instead of just skipping through them. Link to comment
Branson Thorne Posted February 13, 2015 Share #47 Posted February 13, 2015 I always wished it wasn't against the ToS, I do very well for myself (and I don't mean I'm rich) but real $$$ isn't an issue for me. In-game $$ is always hard to come by for me. So I usually fund my in game money with real money, when it's possible of course... Link to comment
Aoi Fukiku Posted February 13, 2015 Share #48 Posted February 13, 2015 Will do art for coil 5 clear! Link to comment
LiveVoltage Posted February 13, 2015 Share #49 Posted February 13, 2015 Will do art for coil 5 clear! OI! Tell me when and where and ill get the crew together! Link to comment
Aldotsk Posted February 13, 2015 Share #50 Posted February 13, 2015 Will do arts w/ full scale CG art for two characters power level to 50 and story mode completion (2.0) and Atma. kkthx. ... honestly I would but I wouldn't trust people with my account Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now