[SPOILERS not hidden in SPOILERS] 2.55 Before the Fall Part 2

[Seriphyn]

I know it's super-cool to hate on Ul'dah (perhaps some of us prefer black&white morality), but just a reminder Ul'dah is the only city-state in Eorzea where a complete outsider can reach the highest echelons of society.

[TheLastCandle]

I know it's super-cool to hate on Ul'dah (perhaps some of us prefer black&white morality), but just a reminder Ul'dah is the only city-state in Eorzea where a complete outsider can reach the highest echelons of society.

 

Mm, more than a little disingenuous for anyone who's paid attention to the lore to try to say this with a straight face. The grey areas are less pronounced, less in your face in Gridania, perhaps, but they're absolutely on display front and center in Limsa.

[Seriphyn]

I know it's super-cool to hate on Ul'dah (perhaps some of us prefer black&white morality), but just a reminder Ul'dah is the only city-state in Eorzea where a complete outsider can reach the highest echelons of society.

 

Mm, more than a little disingenuous for anyone who's paid attention to the lore to try to say this with a straight face. The grey areas are less pronounced, less in your face in Gridania, perhaps, but they're absolutely on display front and center in Limsa.

 

It is a snipe, yeah. It's just tiresome to hear the "lol Ul'dah sux" thing because it's put right in your face when all of them are shitty. A Gridanian conjurer refuses to heal a 12 y/o girl because "the Elementals said so". Ishgard is terrible to live in if you're not a noble, and it is clear in 3.0 it will be possibly revealed to be the case they are not so innocent with the Dragonsong War. Meanwhile, Limsa Lominsa is made of pirates...actual historical pirates who rape and pillage and all that.

 

So I don't know what on earth people are talking about when they do the 'Ul'dah sux' thing. Yes, we know. The story is all about that right now.

[Leanne]

I know it's super-cool to hate on Ul'dah (perhaps some of us prefer black&white morality), but just a reminder Ul'dah is the only city-state in Eorzea where a complete outsider can reach the highest echelons of society.

 

Mm, more than a little disingenuous for anyone who's paid attention to the lore to try to say this with a straight face. The grey areas are less pronounced, less in your face in Gridania, perhaps, but they're absolutely on display front and center in Limsa.

 

It is a snipe, yeah. It's just tiresome to hear the "lol Ul'dah sux" thing because it's put right in your face when all of them are shitty. A Gridanian conjurer refuses to heal a 12 y/o girl because "the Elementals said so". Ishgard is terrible to live in if you're not a noble, and it is clear in 3.0 it will be possibly revealed to be the case they are not so innocent with the Dragonsong War. Meanwhile, Limsa Lominsa is made of pirates...actual historical pirates who rape and pillage and all that.

 

So I don't know what on earth people are talking about when they do the 'Ul'dah sux' thing. Yes, we know. The story is all about that right now.

 

I'd say this is simply product of the current state of affairs. No other nation besides Ul'dah has shown their guts so deeply yet, or has been as 'villainized'. For all we've -seen-, Gridania and Limsa Lominsa have their quirks, but they also have fairly stabilized government bodies and nations, whose problems comes more often from the outside than the inside.

 

Ul'dah now...has shown to have a deeply corrupted 'police' body that would be the blades (police being used very very loosely), a nation divided between two starkly different sides and a system that was supposed to lift those who deserves it up the ladder is also being abused by those already rich to keep themselves up there while pushing down some of those still climbing up. Yes, that happens too in real life, it doesn't make it any less ugly.

 

The 'evil' side (to have a mentality of a monetarist isn't evil, problem is, seems like the monetarists are mostly filled with scumbags) also bought what was to be the Eorzea's salvation army (The Crystal Braves), incapacitated the two more influential royalists(Raubahn and Sultana herself) and then chased away the Scions and the Warrior of Light, the ones that tend to clean up everyone's messy mess.

 

My point is...does Gridania and Limsa have ugly sides? Absolutely, perhaps some we couldn't even have seen yet. But no ugly side has been explored and 'uglified' more than Ul'dah's so far. So the current hate Ul'dah is getting, if anything, is mostly fair.

[Chris Ganale]

I'm sorry, but refusing to heal a child because some holier-than-thou, blue-and-orange morality abstract 'gods' said so is going to always trump dick-move political machinations in my book as far as douchebaggery is concerned.

[Kellach Woods]

It is a snipe, yeah. It's just tiresome to hear the "lol Ul'dah sux" thing because it's put right in your face when all of them are shitty. A Gridanian conjurer refuses to heal a 12 y/o girl because "the Elementals said so". Ishgard is terrible to live in if you're not a noble, and it is clear in 3.0 it will be possibly revealed to be the case they are not so innocent with the Dragonsong War. Meanwhile, Limsa Lominsa is made of pirates...actual historical pirates who rape and pillage and all that.

 

So I don't know what on earth people are talking about when they do the 'Ul'dah sux' thing. Yes, we know. The story is all about that right now.

 

If that's the only thing you have against Limsa you haven't paid attention to the plot either - Limsa's problems aren't "derp pirates", in fact the only times unsanctioned pirates cause problems, the problems get resolved after plotlines (ROG 1-30, ACN 30, Dance quest). The structure of the Yellowjackets/Mealvaan's Gate actually functions for policing the city decently.

 

Much more than, say, the Brass Blades can police the Alacran, considering that the guilds themselves end up doing more than the BBs when it comes to the Alacran. (Before you say you just mentioned the guilds doing that in Limsa, ROG is a race vs. the Maelstrom to stop a plot and for their guild's survival, so the Maelstrom are involved, and Arcanists are part of the city's policing as per the early quests of ACN, where you essentially inspect crates for illegal goods and balance books~ THAT'S RIGHT THEY'RE MAGIC ACCOUNTANTS)

 

Limsa's problems is that they have absolutely zero respect for treaties they themselves signed, and endangered the entirety of Vylbrand by forcing the hand of the Kobolds in summoning Titan. You know, A HUGE PORTION OF THE MSQ? ONE THAT IS EVEN BROUGHT UP BY Y'SHTOLA RIGHT IN THE FACE OF MERLWYB?

 

Gridania being racist fucks in addition to slaves of the Elementals is pretty danged bad, true. I've said it numerous times that they should make a plotline based on that. They probably can't because they'd need to make lines that checked for :

- Whether the adventurer started in Gridania

- Whether the adventurer is a Duskwight/Keeper of the Moon/Highlander

- Grand Company status

- MSQ status

 

With Ishgard being the focus I'm pretty sure they'll be introducing something in Gridania that'll make it just as bad. Probably something like the Elementals are now dead and Gridania is completely fucked without them. It just won't be centered on Gridanian racism/xenophobia which is the problem for that city. Like, it's easy to make a plotline based on greed in Ul'dah - just gotta make a villain willing to fuck over the whole continent for a few gil more. (2.4, 2.5 patch cycles)

 

Making a plotline on how Gridanian racism screwed over the entire Alliance? Gonna be a tiny bit harder and involve making characters that are as well received as G'raha Tia. Or as I've heard him called, G'raha Sue, Gary Tia, etc.

[TheLastCandle]

I know it's super-cool to hate on Ul'dah (perhaps some of us prefer black&white morality), but just a reminder Ul'dah is the only city-state in Eorzea where a complete outsider can reach the highest echelons of society.

 

Mm, more than a little disingenuous for anyone who's paid attention to the lore to try to say this with a straight face. The grey areas are less pronounced, less in your face in Gridania, perhaps, but they're absolutely on display front and center in Limsa.

 

It is a snipe, yeah. It's just tiresome to hear the "lol Ul'dah sux" thing because it's put right in your face when all of them are shitty. A Gridanian conjurer refuses to heal a 12 y/o girl because "the Elementals said so". Ishgard is terrible to live in if you're not a noble, and it is clear in 3.0 it will be possibly revealed to be the case they are not so innocent with the Dragonsong War. Meanwhile, Limsa Lominsa is made of pirates...actual historical pirates who rape and pillage and all that.

 

So I don't know what on earth people are talking about when they do the 'Ul'dah sux' thing. Yes, we know. The story is all about that right now.

 

I hear ya. Soon enough, though, the threads will be all about how Ishgard is a verifiably evil nation that doesn't respect Tumblr's diversity at all. So you should look forward to the respite!

 

In all seriousness, though, ever since 1.0 the Main Scenario has kind of focused on Ul'dah Thanalan, mostly out of necessity considering the Path of the Twelve/Waking Sands taking center stage. Villainy abounds in the Shroud and La Noscea as well, no doubt, and hopefully we'll see a little more of it in the patches to come.

[Kage]

I personally like Ul'dah a lot, but the reason it gets so much is because the game focuses a lot into it. Soon it'll be the next city-state of the patch.

 

I want to light all of Gridania on fire but that's just me.

[Crisiet]

I want to light all of Gridania on fire but that's just me.

 

It's not just you, trust me.

[Blue]

 

Oh well, it looked like a nice thread on page 1.

[Kage]

Hey guys, remember Estinien?

 

I think they modified the DRG 50 script to retrofit the fact that he shows up in 2.55 - but I've never done DRG 50 before this patch so I dunno. Anyone know where I could find the original DRG 50 quest text?

 

 

I have posted a few of the lines before. Can you elaborate as to what parts you think were edited to seem as if they fit 2.55?

[Desu Nee]

I personally like Ul'dah a lot, but the reason it gets so much is because the game focuses a lot into it. Soon it'll be the next city-state of the patch.

 

I want to light all of Gridania on fire but that's just me.

More truthful words have never been spoken

[mongi291]

I personally like Ul'dah a lot, but the reason it gets so much is because the game focuses a lot into it. Soon it'll be the next city-state of the patch.

 

I want to light all of Gridania on fire but that's just me.

Eh, I'm not particularly fond of Gridania, either. I like the feeling of the Shroud but that's about it.

[TheLastCandle]

Hey guys, remember Estinien?

 

I think they modified the DRG 50 script to retrofit the fact that he shows up in 2.55 - but I've never done DRG 50 before this patch so I dunno. Anyone know where I could find the original DRG 50 quest text?

 

 

Here's a video if you'd like to compare.

[Blue]

Hey guys, remember Estinien?

 

I think they modified the DRG 50 script to retrofit the fact that he shows up in 2.55 - but I've never done DRG 50 before this patch so I dunno. Anyone know where I could find the original DRG 50 quest text?

 

 

I have posted a few of the lines before. Can you elaborate as to what parts you think were edited to seem as if they fit 2.55?

 

I have recently done DRG quests on an alt (I've done them on my main back in 2014), and I haven't noticed any difference in the dialogues. Maybe they change if you unlock drg AFTER completing 2.55, but they certainly haven't modified it for those that haven't seen the end of 2.55 yet.

[LiadansWhisper]

I'm sorry, but refusing to heal a child because some holier-than-thou, blue-and-orange morality abstract 'gods' said so is going to always trump dick-move political machinations in my book as far as douchebaggery is concerned.

 

You're totally right.

 

But was it really the will of the elementals?  Or was it the will of that particular conjurer?

 

See, that's one of the things that people don't realize - exactly how much un-checked power Conjurers have within Gridania.  Go do the quests in Quarrymill and you'll see it again - a single Conjurer who pretty obviously has an axe to grind with some Ala Mhigan refugees and uses the Elementals as her bully stick.

 

The thing is, any time there is the opportunity for something to be abused, you're going to find unscrupulous people abusing it.  The only difference is that we have been seeing more into the underbelly of Ul'dah than we have any other city-state.

 

But, I think a point in Gridania's favor is that Kan-E-Senna has vastly more power to do good than the Sultana ever had.  Kan-E has far less checks on her (as far as we know) than the Sultana did, and as a whole.  Or else I guarantee you that we'd see more Conjurers spouting off the "will of the Elementals" as an excuse to screw people.

[Warren Castille]

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

 

With Ishgard being the focus I'm pretty sure they'll be introducing something in Gridania that'll make it just as bad. Probably something like the Elementals are now dead and Gridania is completely fucked without them. It just won't be centered on Gridanian racism/xenophobia which is the problem for that city. Like, it's easy to make a plotline based on greed in Ul'dah - just gotta make a villain willing to fuck over the whole continent for a few gil more. (2.4, 2.5 patch cycles)

 

Making a plotline on how Gridanian racism screwed over the entire Alliance? Gonna be a tiny bit harder and involve making characters that are as well received as G'raha Tia. Or as I've heard him called, G'raha Sue, Gary Tia, etc.

 

I don't really agree with this.  There's plenty of opportunity to push Gridania down a darker path except that they have fairly resolutely refused to go down that path for something like centuries at this point.  The entire city-state is pacifist, and when Ala Mhigo threatened them 50 or so years ago, it took Ishgard stepping in to save them (even with the Elementals ready to do some busting of heads)*.

 

But there's plenty of tiny corruption going on, as you see with Conjurers here and there who pull the whole "will of the Elementals" bullshit for their own reasons. I'm of the personal opinion that the only reason why there isn't more of that going on is that the Padjal would start beating said Conjurers with their sticks if they caught them abusing their power.

 

*This is also why it makes no fucking sense, from a Lore standpoint, that Kan-E was like, "Oh no, Ishgard can just stew in its own juices" when the Scions went to the Grand Alliance asking for aid for Ishgard.  Gridania has historically been Ishgard's closest ally and the two have had each other's backs for a long, long time.

[TheLastCandle]

The big difference between Ishgard's "HALONE WILLS IT!" stuff and Gridania's Elementals is that the latter have very real, demonstrable power within the Shroud, and when it was a focal point in the 1.0 quests, they were not afraid to exert it. It's something that's been glossed over since ARR, whether because they were weakened (as some choose to interpret it) or simply because SE decided not to focus on it. I don't know. But it's definitely not as cut and dry as, "Haha, they're making all this shit up." The Gridanians are literally living under the Elementals' roof as a privilege that can be revoked - rather violently.

[Leanne]

The big difference between Ishgard's "HALONE WILLS IT!" stuff and Gridania's Elementals is that the latter have very real, demonstrable power within the Shroud, and when it was a focal point in the 1.0 quests, they were not afraid to exert it. It's something that's been glossed over since ARR, whether because they were weakened (as some choose to interpret it) or simply because SE decided not to focus on it. I don't know. But it's definitely not as cut and dry as, "Haha, they're making all this shit up." The Gridanians are literally living under the Elementals' roof as a privilege that can be revoked - rather violently.

 

Yup. And as such, they're rather willing to be assholes to outsiders and people the elementals deems not welcome. But it is not assholishness for beneficial gains. It is assholishness because there's a potential guillotine for every single person in the Shroud if the elementals decided to flip their shit.

 

...Which doesn't excuse the fact they're being assholes, anyway.

[Kage]

The big difference between Ishgard's "HALONE WILLS IT!" stuff and Gridania's Elementals is that the latter have very real, demonstrable power within the Shroud, and when it was a focal point in the 1.0 quests, they were not afraid to exert it. It's something that's been glossed over since ARR, whether because they were weakened (as some choose to interpret it) or simply because SE decided not to focus on it. I don't know.

I think at the lore panel they said that "yep it's because they've been weakened" so it's word of "god"

[TheLastCandle]

The big difference between Ishgard's "HALONE WILLS IT!" stuff and Gridania's Elementals is that the latter have very real, demonstrable power within the Shroud, and when it was a focal point in the 1.0 quests, they were not afraid to exert it. It's something that's been glossed over since ARR, whether because they were weakened (as some choose to interpret it) or simply because SE decided not to focus on it. I don't know.

I think at the lore panel they said that "yep it's because they've been weakened" so it's word of "god"

 

I don't recall that, but maybe so. Point still stands. 5-6 years is a rather short amount of time, and we don't know how weakened they are. If they are. You can dull a lion's claws, even file down its teeth, but it's still a freakin' lion and you don't want to piss it off.

[LiadansWhisper]

The big difference between Ishgard's "HALONE WILLS IT!" stuff and Gridania's Elementals is that the latter have very real, demonstrable power within the Shroud, and when it was a focal point in the 1.0 quests, they were not afraid to exert it. It's something that's been glossed over since ARR, whether because they were weakened (as some choose to interpret it) or simply because SE decided not to focus on it. I don't know.

I think at the lore panel they said that "yep it's because they've been weakened" so it's word of "god"

 

We have no idea how much they've been weakened, though, and there's every reason to believe they've been growing stronger now that the Calamity is over (the "land" is healing).

 

But even weakened, they are such a concern that the entire White Mage questline revolves around trying to make sure one of the most powerful remains asleep for fear of what it might do if it woke up.  And the Conjurer questline has Elementals in full view towards the end, and they seem pretty terrifying.

 

I mean, I get that people don't like religion and it's fun to make fun of it, but I'm not sure why people have such a problem acknowledging that yes, the Elementals do actually exist and it actually is important to keep the pact with them because, actually, they can fuck people up if that pact is broken.

[Kage]

Well I don't think people are really disregarding it.

 

I think it's just sometimes, you just want to see the world burn.

 

And then yell out at the gods/higher powers.

 

Even if you know it's not going to end well for you.

[LiadansWhisper]

Well I don't think people are really disregarding it.

 

I think it's just sometimes, you just want to see the world burn.

 

And then yell out at the gods/higher powers.

 

Even if you know it's not going to end well for you.

 

I can see that.

 

...actually, now I'm thinking about the video Erik posted of the "Ultimate Fight Final Fantasy" and the very last part.  You probably know the part I'm thinking of.  :lol: