Complaint/Rant/Thing: What's with all the aggression lately?

[Dravus]

In other words: it's not going to help, to put it bluntly.

Exactly, its one of the most effective means we have of conducting positivity.  Many people don't want to make posts praising someone, some will send PMs, many more happily hit that +1 rep button, and often leave a nice comment too. 

 

I feel like we've circled the wagons with the guns facing the wrong direction: toward each other.  This thread is full of high criticism and as much aggression and animosity as any thread on the forum lately.

 

While what we have been dealing with are a handful of controversial topics which have become testy and the occasional heavy-handed criticism of concepts and ideas these things are (sometimes) unfortunate, but are not a reason to demand vast overwhelming changes to a community that has been well run and well conducted for such a long time.

 

I know we all have our own prescriptions, but in the end it boils down to: don't be a jerk.  Express your opinion respectfully, and don't hammer away at someone (or something) with the intent to obliterate it.  Understand and accept that this is a large community with a variety of opinion and interest, and what what we all consider good RP and good use of time will vary widely. 

 

These sorts of things cannot be moderated from on high.  Board moderators can only do their best to work within a framework to keep the edge cases in check, overall the tone will be our responsibility as users to set. 

 

I find it especially upsetting that those very threads most intent upon boosting the tone of the board also come in for harsh criticism.  What exactly are we supposed to do?  Cannot be too positive to each other, cannot be too negative.  Only post when other people think its appropriate?  How about we just accept all of the good that the community has to offer, and do our best to mitigate the bad.

 

I can't help but feel like all of these suggestions for any major changes are overreaction.  Things are not bad, worthy of a moment of reflection, perhaps, but not (apropos a particular thread), of revolution. 

 

This has been one of my very favorite web communities, and I've enjoyed it for over a year to the point that I tend to check it almost constantly to see whats going on.  The idea that we cannot handle or manage ourselves had never occurred to me.  But, if we're to be a community where we really have to trust the moderators to make things right, and we have to remove such dangerous tools as a reputation system from the hands of users lest new forum goers be intimidated, or undesirable habits be spread, then all I can say is that is not a community that will garner my interest, let alone my love.

 

The alternative, then, is for more people to take on board what is being said in regards to things feeling frigid. That the community is so great for you isn't a bad thing - it really isn't. Yet I can't help but feel that it may be blinding you to the issues being raised throughout this thread to some extent.

 

I'll be honest and say that I don't really know you so this isn't meant as a personal attack: your profile has over thirty player character rumours. That's great! Many people who have been here for quite a long time still have zero. When you post in a thread about your character? People respond directly and exchange friendly banter about the good times you've shared together.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad thing or that you should feel ashamed. I'm saying that more acknowledgement is needed in regards to the fact that some role-players are trying very hard to contribute/get stuff going and their efforts fall flat time and time again through no fault of their own.

 

It's like I said earlier: people don't like feeling like an outsider, especially if they're trying to get involved and it's possible for two individuals to have completely different experiences within the same crowd.

 

Let's be honest - we're all warmer to our friends than we may be towards acquaintances/strangers. It's perfectly natural. Breaking the ice is also a two way street and whilst nobody is obligated to interact with anybody else we do need things to be civil across the board.

 

As for the reputation system? It has a few flaws, I'll admit but overall I think it's a good part of the site. It's made my posts feel valued and acknowledged more than once in the past. I personally make it a point to make use of the system whenever I remember to or a particular post stands out as thought provoking.

 

At the end of the day we're dealing with a situation where a lot of people are claiming to feel unwelcome and new/seasoned role-players alike are expressing this on a fairly frequent basis. No matter how one chooses to acknowledge that it's an issue that needs to be addressed and if that involves changes in terms of how moderation works then I'm perfectly fine with that.

 

Fresh blood is incredibly important. New ideas are as well. Both contribute to a community evolving and remaining healthy rather than just one big echo chamber for whichever group has the loudest voices.

 

Though I'm definitely interested in your theories regarding how the proposed changes would impact the site negatively. It's important we discuss it from every angle.

[ProvaDiServo]

Removing the reputation system - perhaps semi permanently as a trial - might also help new members feel more welcome as everyone is on an even playing field, and not get any preconceived ideas about members already here.

If people really feel that the RPC is in need of removal of reputations in order to be a friendly, fun place then I honestly have no idea what's going on any more.

 

Going to echo this I don't really think rep is a mandatory thing to take away. Rep only serves a public display on how the streets vibe with shit you say. If someone feels they have to emulate someone with stacked rep, then I think that speaks more on the emulator than the rep system.

 

 

As an aside, the only real problem I have are signatures beyond 200 pixels in in hieght can we nix them to avoid the stretch?

 

[Rin Fashonti]

This thread seems to snowballing. I've only been on the server for a week and the site for two days so I don't really know much but...Damn..

 

Isn't everyone friends here? lol

[Branson Thorne]

This thread seems to snowballing. I've only been on the server for a week and the site for two days so I don't really know much but...Damn..

 

Isn't everyone friends here? lol

Yes, I'd say most of us are.

[Melkire]

This thread seems to snowballing. I've only been on the server for a week and the site for two days so I don't really know much but...Damn..

 

Isn't everyone friends here? lol

 

I'd like to think so, but some people will tell you no. What I can say is that many discussions and topics here in recent days & weeks have been far more heated than usual.

[Nebbs]

This thread seems to snowballing. I've only been on the server for a week and the site for two days so I don't really know much but...Damn..

 

Isn't everyone friends here? lol

 

It is an international mix of all sorts.. and far better than many forums I have been on.

 

If you are worried have some cake, and a hug.

[Faye]

I don't believe taking away the reputations system will help anything. I get rep as often for positive or neutral posts as I do for snarky ones (granted, I apparently don't think I'm being snarky as often as others think I am--maybe I just have a loose definition of snark, or maybe my tone is translated horribly through text, or maybe some folks are just thin-skinned--perhaps a combination of those) and I don't believe anyone here is vain enough to make snarky posts solely for more potential reputation points.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't pay a lot of attention to anyone's reputation count on here. And when I do glance at the numbers, I don't really use it to gauge how intelligent, useful, or well-liked a person is. Getting rid of the reputation system seems like treating an indirect symptom rather than curing the disease. Plus, let's be honest. I really like giving rep, and I really like getting it. I actually think it brings something positive to the site.

[Zhavi]

This thread seems to snowballing. I've only been on the server for a week and the site for two days so I don't really know much but...Damn..

 

Isn't everyone friends here? lol

 

That people are taking their time to share their concerns and suggestions is, to me, a clear sign that people really care about this community and keeping it a positive and fun place.

 

I like the people here. I like it here.

[SaintEaon]

I don't believe taking away the reputations system will help anything. I get rep as often for positive or neutral posts as I do for snarky ones (granted, I apparently don't think I'm being snarky as often as others think I am--maybe I just have a loose definition of snark, or maybe my tone is translated horribly through text, or maybe some folks are just thin-skinned--perhaps a combination of those) and I don't believe anyone here is vain enough to make snarky posts solely for more potential reputation points.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't pay a lot of attention to anyone's reputation count on here. And when I do glance at the numbers, I don't really use it to gauge how intelligent, useful, or well-liked a person is. Getting rid of the reputation system seems like treating an indirect symptom rather than curing the disease.

 Getting rid of reputation also means people can't easily tell who its easier to ignore or taunt if they disagree. As someone who vehemently despises reddit, removal of up/down voting people is only good.

[YesGood]

Honestly, even before 2.0 launched there was plenty of hostility. Maybe a lot of it didn't -openly- appear on the forums, but it was definitely there. It was typically very lightly veiled as joking or sarcasm but there were and continue to be cliques, and new people back then and I have to assume now are being 'warned' against certain individuals based on either the bad experiences the people warning them had, or even more troubling, just the rumors. 

 

One individual comes immediately to mind who I won't name but was, at one point, a very active and well known member of the community (there are a lot of those so this in intentionally vague). Someone who doesn't even post on the RPC, who openly denounces it in game that I met through my ooc friend who recently started playing this game, first brought up the name when I asked if they had a linkshell/FC profile listed in the directory here. Then, when I said I didn't know, this individual proceeded to try to incite a smearing conversation with me in regards to this person; someone who wasn't related whatsoever to the topic at hand.

 

This has happened several times. Over the course of my periodic visits (that were once upon a time pretty frequent) to the RPC, I've had people go out of their way to talk to me about other members that I don't even know and how much they despise them. I usually feel pretty indifferent, but that without a doubt translates into hostile replies to those individual's posts by the people who just do not like them. There's a variety of reasons why they might not like them. Maybe they don't agree with their philosophies. Maybe they personally slighted them. Maybe they feel too intensely about their opinions or are offended by the way someone else words theirs. Maybe they don't like how popular or well-liked someone is. All of this has been more or less covered in this thread, but that's what happens in communities where people become embittered by their own experiences or have been conditioned to become defensive of topics or beliefs or friends. 

 

If you want to crack down on hostility, that's grand and all, but it won't stop lonely people from feeling like they're not heard or not worthy of people's attention turning those same sad feelings into aggression towards the objects of popular interest. People are just going to dislike people, and that's how it is. What people need to learn isn't 'Grow a thicker skin; I'm just saying what I think is right' it's -tact-. If you want to be in a community with other people, then EVEN IF ALL THOSE PEOPLE are thick-skinned, filterless, unapologetically close-minded individuals (this is an exaggerated hypothetical, not referring to this coalition or anyone in it) then you SHOULD STILL learn to be tactful and NOT contribute to the bitter back and forths, even if you feel like you're being targeted or that your response is justified. If you have a problem, maybe talk to a moderator and have them try to help you work it out with someone else. 

 

So instead of trying to catch hostility in progress, usually after the fact, and thereby try to find a solid definition of what can be considered hostile, why not just point out when people are being harsh instead or when they're being far too strict in their stereotyping and opinions of other people's characters or questions? Why not just soften the tone instead and try to encourage people to give a little more than a half-effort to drop just enough sugary disclaimer onto a post to hide the personal hatred of how other people do things, or how these players are, or why I don't like this thing because this one other thing happened to me and this is how I responded to it--? I honestly don't think anything'll work, but trying to discourage toxicity in any way at all like the ones the leaders have planned is -something-.

 

And if you have something to say about something you don't like that you can't be open-minded about then maybe make a tumblr and go rant about it there instead of here.

[Kage]

The above post reminded me of something that I read earlier in regards to an actual roleplay topic (on tumblr) but was what I see more geared towards tabletop roleplay than MMORPG roleplay however it still applies.

 

http://www.giantitp.com/articles/tll307KmEm4H9k6efFP.html

The article goes on to describe situations where a character might react a certain way to a certain situation. (Someone steals something, someone else finds stealing is wrong. The person decided that the thief needed to leave the party or the person would leave.) Instead of being adamant about the ultimatum given and thus driving much discord into the small group of roleplayers, the player who thought the thief was wrong could have said or done different things that would be in-character. This is what -we- choose to do.

 

The point was that, we are a community, trying to keep and foster the community. If we didn't care, we wouldn't say a thing. There were a few who had voiced it outside of RPC that they found themselves coming less and less or wondering if they should visit less and less because of things. But, for me, I wouldn't keep coming to check on things if I didn't care. We -do- care and that's probably why some things get heated. So if we care, I do, I will continue to try and do my best to better how I react and thus treat the community better. Is it truly worth it to keep arguing something to the point of being condescending (which I believe is what starts to get people heated. They feel like someone doesn't treat their opinion with as much "worth" or that it is inferior / it doesn't matter).

 

I posted one of the posts elsewhere, but I think that myself and in general everyone can stand to be heated in their discussions/debates/what have you. Keep it from shouting matches. Keep it from personal attacks. You think it's going nowhere? Leave the topic; don't post things that "everyone knows" will just end up de-railing the thread and locking it. Instead of stopping the discussion, those who are taking it too far should be notified and/or dealt with that what they're doing needs to cool down.

 

edit: tl;dr : We choose how we react, bad or good. Our actions should be made with the thought "Is this going to help or better the community?" I'll own up to the fact that I've gotten quite upset about posts or threads I've made and someone makes a post that adds no discussion except to make a snarky post about it.

[Warren Castille]

I'm tired of being guilted for other people's RP or lack thereof.

[Zhavi]

I'm tired of being guilted for other people's RP or lack thereof.

 

It's one of those uneasy middle ground things.

 

Calling out people can result in petty arguments and hurt feelings.

 

Being vague stalls the petty arguments and hurt feelings, but leads to more people going 'is that me? am I part of the problem?' I know I've felt that way, just like sometimes I get a very strong impression that I'm being annoying or annoying someone in general. Sometimes I want to foster or encourage a discussion and am either ignored or taken in a way I didn't want to be taken -- but, well, that's every community. In the end I go to rl friends and they do the awkward headpat thing like 'I have no idea why you're getting riled over your silly and sometimes bizarre hobbies, but you're ok' ... and, most of time time, I am ok.

 

I don't know what your private discussions are, but better to send someone a pm and see for sure rather than not; to me you've always been a positive rp influence, Warren, and inclusive.

[Oscare]

This thread seems to snowballing. I've only been on the server for a week and the site for two days so I don't really know much but...Damn..

 

Isn't everyone friends here? lol

Some people don't like people. So no, not everyone likes everyone or is friends with everyone. We can pretend that we do, but others don't like to pretend either. Tension exists, but it doesn't mean we have to let it inhibit us or our actions. We simply have to live with it and learn to control it so it doesn't cause more grief.

[Edvyn]

the notion of removing or changing the rep system in an attempt to "change people's tone" (read: control their minds somehow) is both completely useless and utterly insane. it will change nobody's posting style, and only really serves to take something inconsequential away from people so that a vocal, hypersensitive, hysterical, over-entitled minority can feel a little better about themselves. it is levelling the playing field by cutting everyone else down. i, for one, enjoy my stupid green number and would rather it stay. if i got my stupid green number by saying things that aren't to the complainers' tastes, why should that even matter? they didn't give me the +1s, did they? why should the people who enjoyed my posts and added to my stupid green number be deprived of their ability to let me know they laughed at my shitty jokes in simple, numeric form? 8-)

[Alothia]

I'm on my phone, so I can't make as lengthy post as I would like to. 

 

I think that this discussion is good, but I'd like to say just a few more things. 

 

• Why does discussion inherently turn to people needing to get thicker skin? I think the mod team as a whole does a good job pruning out comments that ride the line. We will continue to do the same thing. The only thing that will change will be that we will have a system of clearcut ramifications for having us prune a lot. So if you've noticed your posts go poof, just look at the things that have gone missing and try not to do those things. 
  
• ]The rep system isn't the problem, I don't think. The problem is people using it as a means to encourage sometimes overly snarky behavior. I don't think that any of us really don't understand what is and isn't appropriate. 
  
• Instead of taking offense to a criticism of the site, take a moment to examine if you sometimes unwittingly do the thing in question. None of us are innocent. I know I can be flaky sometimes. It's okay. 
  
• Please don't let this discussion become a grounds for flouncing out. We will work on things as a community for the betterment of a community. Have faith that if we try sommething, and it doesn't work, that we will tweak it until it does.
  

We want this to work. 

[ArmachiA]

Oh, boy.

 

Okay, so first - the reputation system: It wasn't around when I first joined and suddenly appeared when I came in. I think, overall, it's an... okay... system. But I think Verad has a point, it can breed being snarky just for points. I'll give an example of myself. Generally, I try to keep my posts tone neutral in serious discussion - some people still take it for hostility but over all I try my best to make sure my tone is respectful and not too harsh. However, in one thread a while back about Gilgamesh some girl was kind of getting on my nerves and I ended up snarking at her. I remember saying very vividly "I can see why no one likes you." and, while my usual long posts with meaningful discussion warrant me 1 or 2 reputation, I got 20 REP from that ONE POST. I also got warned from the Moderators (50% warning!) and while I should have felt worse about the warning, all them rep points made me feel justified in being a snarky asshole.

 

THAT being said, over all it's an okay system. I wish there was a way for Mods to watch the rep scores, deleting the scores that were for mean comments and Dick jokes, but then you get into the question of the Mods doing too much and blah blah blah. I go to one forum that has a similar system, EXCEPT it shows on each post who specifically thanked for WHO so they know where those Rep points are coming from exactly. For example (Warning this is a forum dedicated to Japanese pop group factory Hello!Project):

 

http://jplop.com/viewtopic.php?p=176358#p176358 As you can see, this shows exactly who thanked this low quality post while

http://jplop.com/viewtopic.php?t=5979&p=84760#p84760 you can also see who thanked for this more effort one

(AyuHikaru is me, so I use my terribleness as an example)

 

The community over at Jplop is ridiculously snarky, more so than here, so that thank system really lets you learn REAL quick who's only thanking people for being assholes and who is actually getting thanked for high quality posts. Something like that, where we can see who is getting thanked for what would be a boon here.

 

~~~~

 

OKAY SO ON THE REST:

I'm here on this forum for discussion. Period. I'm not here to play the light hearted "Circlejerk" (As some have called them) games or try to become a giant pillar of the community. I'm here to talk about roleplay as a process, lore as it is, the community as it could be, etc etc. I'm here to have conversations with people who disagree with me and we can talk. Some people on this forum have made me change my mind on some things and I'm glad for that. I always stick my nose into the more serious conversations because that's what I like to talk about. There are some people here who I don't agree with a lot of the time, but their posts are always respectful and I respect their opinion and want to hear more from them. I like really deep conversation about rp as a whole. It's interesting to me to see how other people think and act.

 

As I stated above, I try my best to keep my tone neutral as possible, though I understand that in and of itself can come off as harsh. I wish more people would ASK what the tone is instead of assuming what the tone is. "Was this intended to be mean?" is just a lot more meaningful then "This post was mean." It would go a long way to get rid of confusion.

 

I don't want to see this place become a hug box, where if you say something the majority doesn't agree with your spammed with GIFs and Meme's. Where snarky comments are the answer to long thought out posts because somehow it disagreed with someone else's sensibilities. We aren't 4chan, GIFs and Meme's have a place and it's not in a serious discussion. I don't want to see discussion shut down because some people don't like it - yes that includes the "popular" discussion, the "New RPer" discussion, and even White Mage lore. Discussion should be free and open, and those who try to stop it or act aggressively towards it are the ones who should be warned, not the people starting the discussion (Unless of course, they don't come correct and/or start getting all aggressive too. Those who start topics can also be in the wrong!). It's so easy to just ignore something you think you've seen a hundred times, and yet so many people can't seem to bring themselves to do it.

 

That being said, I've considered taking a step back from the RPC myself. I am always worried that what I say here is destroying my reputation in game. This Lore nazi who takes rp sooo seriously when really I joke about ERP and Shipping 90% of the time. I just like discussion. Hardly any of my FC posts here despite is being fairly large - they feel they may say something "wrong" because most of us are quite opinionated so they don't bother. I will be watching closely what choices the moderators make and that will finalize my decision.

[OttoVann]

Hide post counts and hide reputation. Even the playing field and watch as a lot of smaller bullshit goes away.

[C'kayah Polaali]

I'll be honest and say that I don't really know you so this isn't meant as a personal attack: your profile has over thirty player character rumours. That's great! Many people who have been here for quite a long time still have zero. When you post in a thread about your character? People respond directly and exchange friendly banter about the good times you've shared together.

 

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad thing or that you should feel ashamed. I'm saying that more acknowledgement is needed in regards to the fact that some role-players are trying very hard to contribute/get stuff going and their efforts fall flat time and time again through no fault of their own.

 

This may sound harsh, and it's not meant in that spirit at all: If a roleplayer is trying very hard to contribute and get stuff going, and their efforts are failing, then it might be a good idea for them to examine what they're doing.

 

I remember when Aya first came to RPC. She made a few posts looking for RP, and then posted an open RP which I responded to. Much like anyone else. But what stood out to me was that she was both a really good writer and just a really positive person interested in building constructive, collaborative RP. Since then she and I have RPed on occasion (far less frequently than I'd like), and it's *always* a positive experience. In the time I've known her, I've seen her go out of her way to reach out and RP with new players. This is why she has 30 rumors on her wiki and a bunch of positive rep. This is why people banter in a friendly manner with her. She's done the legwork to develop acquaintanceships and friendships with these people. It's honestly acquired.

 

Personally speaking, I'm not as extroverted as Aya. I prefer one-on-one RP over crowds. Yet I've still managed to develop a lot of connections with C'kayah, and my wiki has a ton of rumors for him, too. I credit two things to this: When I first arrived in FF, I started offering my character as a foil for people - a supporting character in their story. People love getting the chance to let their hero shine, and I would help them do this! The other thing I do (which I continue to do to this day) is I habitually examine people who look like RPers (i.e: People who are walking, or sitting in the QS, or wearing something that looks well thought out) to see if they have RP tags. The ones that aren't actively RPing? I'll send them tells: "Hi! I noticed you're a RPer! What sort of RP do you like?" My friends list is packed because of this. My FC is filled with people I've met this way. It works.

 

A lot of people like to pretend that social skills are innate. That we simply emerge from the womb with whatever social ability we will have. It's not true. Social skills are skills. They're learned. If you're not getting the interaction you want, then look at changing your skill set. It works.

[Faye]

Why not compromise and just remove/not allow reputation points gained from a post that was removed or merited someone a warning?

[OttoVann]

What about like, hiding the rep and post count, but letting people opt-in to seeing those in their CP settings. Join date as well maybe. Those numerical scores are used to immediately dismiss a lot of peoples posts on this site for anything, whether it be in arguments, LF-RP stuff, or otherwise. Let those that care about their and other's post counts opt-in to seeing them.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

Why does discussion inherently turn to people needing to get thicker skin? I think the mod team as a whole does a good job pruning out comments that ride the line. We will continue to do the same thing.

 

Gonna quote the rules on my stance.

 

2. Stand by your words: "Don't say it if you don't want it to be around forever."

 

I take this literally. If I've said something, then it means I've read it over and assume it's going to stick around, whether it makes or breaks me is of my own responsibility. But that's just it. I'm accepting responsibility for whatever I type, which may not be what others are always doing.

[Edvyn]

Why not compromise and just remove/not allow reputation points gained from a post that was removed or merited someone a warning?

that removes the fun phantom rep that some people have, where you see a rep boost from someone and then the BEEP BEEP ACCESS DENIED screen when you go to see the post. i think phantom rep is an interesting quirk of the rep system and worth keeping for fun's sake. it also sounds technically challenging - can rep actually be disabled on a post-by-post basis? i probably don't know as much about forum shit as mr. wizard, but it might not be do-able.

[Flashhelix]

I remember first joining the RPC and coming into my first thread, where I was shown just how many things the reputation system negatively affects. For anyone still thinking the blame on the rep system is excessive, I dare you to listen to my story.

 

There I was, a young, innocent, and optimistic roleplayist. I saw the screenshots thread, and figured a good way to introduce myself to the community was by posting a screenshot of my character. So I did. Oh, how wrong and foolish I was.

 

Immediately, the negative and toxic posting began. "Get a load of this nerd! Not even ONE rep point!" I saw, my heart sinking and a mix of shock and shame overcoming me. The horrible posts continued "What the frack does this nerdball think he's doing? He's trying to follow my post with an unrelated one of his own, and he doesn't even have a TENTH of the rep I do!" was what I heard from thread to thread, on and on. I tried to boost my rep by making honestly kind and caring posts. "Your character looks great!" "You're a wonderful person!" I'd boast.

 

But my rep count stayed low. Those villains were MISUSING the rep system. While I was doing honest posting, those fiends were posting snarky and vile comments against good roleplayists, thus tricking people into liking their posts! I was shocked and horrified, but the words of the high-rep posters rang in my ears. "Your post didn't even have ONE reaction face or snappy comment in it! What the fuck are you even doing here?" And the inevitable FALSE-LIKING of their post that would come. The growing approval for these horrible toxic posts spiraled out of control. I can still hear a sound in my head every time I feel one of their posts upvoted by something falsely thinking that they said something worth liking. Ding. Ding. Ding. DINGDINGDING. Like an unholy steel triangle, I felt these dings piercing my very skin.

 

And now here I am. I quickly learned that, to survive in the harsh, dog-eat-fat cat world of the RPC, I had to get tough, and get mean. Most importantly, I had to get TOXIC. There's no going back for me. My soul is long gone, but maybe this new, fresh-faced roleplayer generation can be saved from the toxicity. Just maybe.

[ArmachiA]

Why does discussion inherently turn to people needing to get thicker skin? I think the mod team as a whole does a good job pruning out comments that ride the line. We will continue to do the same thing.

 

Gonna quote the rules on my stance.

 

2. Stand by your words: "Don't say it if you don't want it to be around forever."

 

I take this literally. If I've said something, then it means I've read it over and assume it's going to stick around, whether it makes or breaks me is of my own responsibility. But that's just it. I'm accepting responsibility for whatever I type, which may not be what others are always doing.

 

That's how I see it too.

 

However, I feel like when mods edit post to uh... sound nicer? it sort of scrubs that responsibility, like they can say whatever in the moment because a Mod will come and clean it up later no biggie.