Heavensward Ilevel Requirements. Strange Design Choice?

[Kaniko Niko]

Every single thing Warren post is true. I played for about two and a half to three years post-Chains of Promathia. I completed maybe one Promyvion and never even set foot into the new continent/zone Tavnazia. I've never managed to get to Sea or Sky, either. And to be fair, I never really even made it above 70.

 

In the time when most of the people did Promyvion, there was ZERO reason to go back and with how unrepentantly brutal the game was at the time, people wouldn't accept insurance gil against the EXP pool for a carry.

 

And I agree with him. The game was sick, twisted and brutal. You couldn't pay me to play it again or recommend the old version to anyone.

 

But those six or so years are days I count among my most cherished.

[Telluride]

Meh, add me to the list of people thinking that it's a massively bad decision forcing people to have to get ilvl 90 AND beat Steps of Faith to get to most of the goodies they forked out a lot of money to get.

 

I'll stop before I say how I really feel about it, which involves a lot of questionable linguistics that my old professors would not have allowed me to present as research topics.

[Kellach Woods]

I think the moment I heard someone say "you can't level past 10 without a party" I went hahahahahahahaha who designs a game like that square you're on crack.

 

and thus is the story on how I never played XI.

[Aduu Avagnar]

I understand gating the MSQ behind it, however, I don't personally agree with gating the entire region/classes behind it.

 

But I can confirm what Jonexe said, he beasted it out no problem.

[Aya]

Gating things behind the MSQ remains my greatest complaint about this entire game.  Its the main reason why, when people ask me about it, I reply that its a terrible game with a terrific community.  That's just my opinion, but I'm honestly neither surprised nor pleased that they're sticking to it in Heavensward.  Oh well

[Dravus]

You needed to be level 58 - 60 in order to access Outland during WoW's first expansion. You needed to be 68-70 to access Northrend during it's second expansion. This isn't anything new for MMO's and I don't feel as though ILVL 90 is a huge stretch. There's plenty of ways to attain it before the expansion launches and even players on a tight schedule will be easily be able to do it. 

 

There's the Crystal Tower raids which are fairly simple and designed explicitly to help people gear up easily. There's the stuff that drops from dungeons, there's gear you can buy from the market or have crafted by friends. You can do hunts and trade seals for gear or you can exchange tomes instead. There's numerous routes to go down in other words.

 

If people feel like they should be handed everything on a silver platter without putting in minimal effort then that's their prerogative. If people are lagging behind due to placing role-play on a higher pedestal then that's unfortunate but not really Square's fault.

 

At the end of the day it's an expansion - something to expand on what's already there. I like that people are required to get through the main story since they'll know what's going on and it'll ensure that older content remains relevant in the future. Rather than becoming stagnant and rarely used like so many lovely raids and dungeons in certain other MMO's.

[Mercer]

You needed to be level 58 - 60 in order to access Outland during WoW's first expansion. You needed to be 68-70 to access Northrend during it's second expansion. This isn't anything new for MMO's and I don't feel as though ILVL 90 is a huge stretch. There's plenty of ways to attain it before the expansion launches and even players on a tight schedule will be easily be able to do it. 

 

There's the Crystal Tower raids which are fairly simple and designed explicitly to help people gear up easily. There's the stuff that drops from dungeons, there's gear you can buy from the market or have crafted by friends. You can do hunts and trade seals for gear or you can exchange tomes instead. There's numerous routes to go down in other words.

 

If people feel like they should be handed everything on a silver platter without putting in minimal effort then that's their prerogative. If people are lagging behind due to placing role-play on a higher pedestal then that's unfortunate but not really Square's fault.

 

At the end of the day it's an expansion - something to expand on what's already there. I like that people are required to get through the main story since they'll know what's going on and it'll ensure that older content remains relevant in the future. Rather than becoming stagnant and rarely used like so many lovely raids and dungeons in certain other MMO's.

 

The flip side is that you didn't need to do the Plaguelands story, Scholo and Strath before moving to Silithus and doing AQ20. That's the issue that XIV has, it's not just the level requirement but the story/dungeon requirements.

[Dravus]

You needed to be level 58 - 60 in order to access Outland during WoW's first expansion. You needed to be 68-70 to access Northrend during it's second expansion. This isn't anything new for MMO's and I don't feel as though ILVL 90 is a huge stretch. There's plenty of ways to attain it before the expansion launches and even players on a tight schedule will be easily be able to do it. 

 

There's the Crystal Tower raids which are fairly simple and designed explicitly to help people gear up easily. There's the stuff that drops from dungeons, there's gear you can buy from the market or have crafted by friends. You can do hunts and trade seals for gear or you can exchange tomes instead. There's numerous routes to go down in other words.

 

If people feel like they should be handed everything on a silver platter without putting in minimal effort then that's their prerogative. If people are lagging behind due to placing role-play on a higher pedestal then that's unfortunate but not really Square's fault.

 

At the end of the day it's an expansion - something to expand on what's already there. I like that people are required to get through the main story since they'll know what's going on and it'll ensure that older content remains relevant in the future. Rather than becoming stagnant and rarely used like so many lovely raids and dungeons in certain other MMO's.

 

The flip side is that you didn't need to do the Plaguelands story, Scholo and Strath before moving to Silithus and doing AQ20. That's the issue that XIV has, it's not just the level requirement but the story/dungeon requirements.

 

I'd like to think that a significant portion of players stick around in FFXIV because of the story - which is pretty great when compared to the lackluster tales encountered in many other MMO's.

 

It's not a bad thing to have everybody be on the same page. Nor is it unusual for a journey in an MMO to take time. Would people really enjoy the alternative that WoW embraced which allowed players to skip through the bulk of content - therefore making it irrelevant - and purchasing character boosts with real life money?

 

If so, WoW's still running for those who prefer that sort of thing.

[Kellach Woods]

It's not an if/or proposition.

 

They could have gated it behind the MSQ, but not placed iLevel requirements on the MSQ to begin with.

[Gegenji]

So not have any of the level 50 dungeons and trials (like Snowcloak and Shiva) in the MSQ at all, then?

 

EDIT:

I should clarify - I ask this honestly because I hit a couple "snag" points when powerleveling Judge to 50 and completing the MSQ. Once was legitimately at the Snowcloak point because my gear was too low level, and again for Keeper (which I'm pretty sure is i90). The iLevel requirements in the MSQ have been there for a while now, one of which will put you at the iLevel you'll need to be for Heavensward.

 

I passed the first snag point by buying gear off the Market Boards to just skate by. I did it some more at the Keeper point, along with using the tomes I had collected along the way and the unlocking of CT to shore up my score.

 

So, if they gated it behind the MSQ without setting an iLevel score itself for it, there would still be an i90 gear requirement since you need that to run Keeper.

[SunTzu7]

Problem is that they've stressed repeatedly that Heavensward content is going to be harder and require more co-operation. So having a minimum level of preparation before going into it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

Steps seems rough, and it is rough (though not as rough as some people are suggesting 'STEPS IS HARDER THAN TURN 9' springs to mind). But it's essentially a training montage and there's not many more effective methods of encouragement than 'you will work together to get this right or we'll stand here and humiliate you for the next twenty minutes while a giant dragon stomps on your face.'

 

No I'm not bitter. Not at all really.

 

I suppose if you want to be mean spirited, it's the Realm Reborn team making damn well sure you've squeezed everything out of their old content by sitting in their Ivory tower dangling flying mounts and shiny new classes and shouting down 'Work for it plebeians!'

[Dravus]

It's not an if/or proposition.

 

They could have gated it behind the MSQ, but not placed iLevel requirements on the MSQ to begin with.

 

The gear grind isn't going away. It's a carrot on a stick for a considerable portion of players and serves to give a sense of progression. Steps of Faith requires better gear than Halatali - but it doesn't really matter since if people have gone through the quests up until that point then they should be ILVL 90 already. If they're not? Well, that's a shame - but there's numerous catch up methods for people to invest in.

[Warren Castille]

Problem is that they've stressed repeatedly that Heavensward content is going to be harder and require more co-operation. So having a minimum level of preparation before going into it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

Steps seems rough, and it is rough (though not as rough as some people are suggesting 'STEPS IS HARDER THAN TURN 9' springs to mind). But it's essentially a training montage and there's not many more effective methods of encouragement than 'you will work together to get this right or we'll stand here and humiliate you for the next twenty minutes while a giant dragon stomps on your face.'

 

No I'm not bitter. Not at all really.

 

I suppose if you want to be mean spirited, it's the Realm Reborn team making damn well sure you've squeezed everything out of their old content by sitting in their Ivory tower dangling flying mounts and shiny new classes and shouting down 'Work for it plebeians!'

 

They've been preparing us for the Yuuzahn Vong the entire time...!

[FreelanceWizard]

Steps seems rough, and it is rough (though not as rough as some people are suggesting 'STEPS IS HARDER THAN TURN 9' springs to mind).

 

*flails*

 

T9 is hard. Steps is nothing compared to T9.

 

Seriously, I can and have taken a group of 7 newbies to Steps and done it in one shot before the nerf. It just takes patience to explain, people listening and asking questions, and people not freaking out.

 

Back on topic: I feel bad for the new players and returning players who are behind on the MSQ or ilvl and will need to catch up just to see the new content. I fear that some people won't be willing to sacrifice their time to aid people there unless the devs give appropriate Shinies via DF -- better than the current DR MS rewards, for instance. So... I don't know. I may just need to devote some time each week to helping people clear the old content so they can get into the new stuff.

[D'aito Kuji]

Oh, I dunno.  I plan on buying the expansion even though at my level of progression, it'll literally be more than a year before I can play it.  I just wanna support the game. But I understand that not everyone has money to throw around like that.

 

I'm not too sure that I care about spoilers as I've managed to stay in the dark about how the story before Heavensward ends.  And besides, my personal journey to that end will be different than anyone else because it's my journey.  I hope that a lot of MMO players understand that, at least RP'ers.

 

City of Heroes and The Secret World both put significant barriers to accessing their expansions, so this is nothing new to me.

 

I will say that the MSQ dungeon thing is the one thing I absolutely do not like about this game.  But, I'll get around to them all eventually.

[Kellach Woods]

So not have any of the level 50 dungeons and trials (like Snowcloak and Shiva) in the MSQ at all, then? 

 

Ideally, yeah. I mean if you look at another expansion down the line - I'm thinking mostly how difficult it'll be to actually run the instances at that level since nobody will want to run them. Right now it's easy because roulettes can help out, but in Heavensward I can't see anyone running those voluntarily unless they're doing it to help a friend out. Which is not necessarily an option for everyone.

 

The problem isn't now - now is easy peasy. You can catch up no problem because there's a large pool of players at that level.

 

Come Heavensward, that large pool of players? They're grinding to 60 and playing over there. That's where it'll become most difficult, and Square WILL have to do something about it. But then again it wouldn't be video games development if people actually planned shit through so I'm kinda whatever. (Personal bitterness~!)

[Flickering Ember]

They should just stop with every new piece of content being quest gated. Finishing 2.55 isn't a problem just because of SoF but the entire quest line is exhausting. This is why leveling alts is such a nightmare. Having to do the msq again and unlock everything hidden behind a quest--it is too much.

 

What they should do is split the msq into segments instead of one huge chain. People can skip segments at their own risk or use the in game synopsis.

[Seriphyn]

Maybe I'm unsympathetic to the gated content plight. I am used to FFXIV being a more story-based MMO than most. Every game mechanic has some lore reasoning to it; the existence of other PCs, for example, and even tome-grinding! It would make zero sense from this story-focused game design to purchase Heavensward and instantly gain access to Ishgard, when you might not be up-to-date with the story (which says Ishgard to very much closed). "We are throwing open the Gates of Ishgard!" -> "Cool story bruh, was already open for me".

 

If someone can justify being able to access Ishgard AND maintain the integrity of the story-focused design...

[Zyrusticae]

If someone can justify being able to access Ishgard AND maintain the integrity of the story-focused design...

Ishgard stays locked. Players can still access the surrounding Coerthas zones.

 

Of course, if the new jobs are gated in Ishgard as well, we still have a problem, heh. Still very curious what level they'll start at, since they aren't starting at level 1.

[Kellach Woods]

If you want to have a story-focused design, that's fine. There are ways to do that that does not gate the content through group content requiring a certain iLevel that will be extremely difficult to obtain not because the content is difficult, but because there will be too few players at that level.

 

My point is more that they should address this now, and not in the inevitable post-Heavensward expansion when the problem will be even worse.

 

Ishgard stays locked. Players can still access the surrounding Coerthas zones.

 

Of course, if the new jobs are gated in Ishgard as well, we still have a problem, heh. Still very curious what level they'll start at, since they aren't starting at level 1.

 

From previous interviews I thought they started at 30.

[Gegenji]

Of course, if the new jobs are gated in Ishgard as well, we still have a problem, heh. Still very curious what level they'll start at, since they aren't starting at level 1.

 

I remember hearing somewhere that they start at 30.

[Aya]

I feel bad for the new players and returning players who are behind on the MSQ or ilvl and will need to catch up just to see the new content.

Seriously... this right here.  I know that if I ever stop playing I won't come back because of this exactly.  Its the same with trying to attract new players, "Sure you can buy the game and start from scratch to come play with me, but it will be three months of grinding before you can actually do any of the new stuff with me."

 

Its not a very encouraging system.

 

If someone can justify being able to access Ishgard AND maintain the integrity of the story-focused design...

Well maybe that there is the problem. If they can't make their "story driven MMO" consistent with a "fun and accessible MMO" then I can tell you which one I'd like to give.

[Seriphyn]

Can't you still access Coerthas and Dravania with the expansion and without finishing the MSQ?

[Wymsical]

I'm not surprised at all about the gating; I'm completely used to it with World of Warcraft and many other MMOs that have expansions. These new classes are supposed to be more advanced and will be starting at level 30 instead of 1; Warcraft kinda did this with death knights that required a certain level and were created completely fresh at 50 or 60. It worked out well and they were a little more difficult to learn too. Additionally, the new zones will be filled with much more difficult monsters and the content is supposed to be challenging as well. I can't imagine Heavensward sales suffering as a direct result from this. There's a LOT of content in Heavensward so the notion that this isn't worthy of being called an expansion is a little silly, I personally believe. Continuing the story is actually something I used to wish other MMOs did. 

 

I'll agree on one thing though, some months down the line it'd be nice if all expansion-required Realm Reborn content was no longer required or nerfed so it could be done individually (or with NPCs! I think this idea has been mentioned by SE, actually.)

[Martiallais]

*snip*

 

I may just need to devote some time each week to helping people clear the old content so they can get into the new stuff.

 

Emphasis mine here (and possibly totally off topic but whatever). I think maybe this was skipped over but maybe this could be a point where the community comes together to help each other? I know we've already got a thread for clearing SoF going so maybe we could do the same for general trials/dungeons/etc for the MSQ?

 

I know speaking only for myself I'm leveling a lowbie tank now but will be leveling a brand new Au Ra (eventually) that I could offer as help. Besides, I always like seeing RPC names ingame and am sure others feel the same, teaming up to kick over something seems like it'd be even more fun.