discussion Red Flags in RP/RP Partners?

[Faye]

I can't do combat RP. I just can't let fate dictate the outcome on a dice roll while doing a vague description of getting elbowed in the face by the world's smallest Lalafell. That just makes me, out of it completely.

 

Now, if we're talking duels... That's Fine.

 

But /em attempts to kick you in the shins.

/roll / rng /whatever it is.

-person rolls a 1-

/em falls over flat on my face.

 

Can't. Just can't.

 

You can do combat RP without rolls! Just takes a measure of trust and communication between everyone to be on the same page and not godmod.

[Kismet]

I can't do combat RP. I just can't let fate dictate the outcome on a dice roll while doing a vague description of getting elbowed in the face by the world's smallest Lalafell. That just makes me, out of it completely.

 

Now, if we're talking duels... That's Fine.

 

But /em attempts to kick you in the shins.

/roll / rng /whatever it is.

-person rolls a 1-

/em falls over flat on my face.

 

Can't. Just can't.

 

Meanwhile, I'm the polar opposite on this. As much as I hate rolls and character sheet-based combat systems... I'd take those over someone who wants to resolve IC issues through PvP any day. Why? I've found that most people I've come across who prefer actual dueling to RPing out combat have made terrible impressions on me. To be frank, it simply seems to smack of a lack of writing proficiency. Those sorts of players are usually either way too serious about RP (see: letting OOC bleed into IC), not serious enough about RP (see: too casual for my tastes), or just have some have some other whackadoodle trait that makes them utterly insufferable.

 

Note: I know this likely doesn't apply to everyone that likes PvP-RP. It's just been my experience.

 

I also find the idea of the reasoning for preferring dueling over rolls (feeling like you have a lack of control over what's left to fate versus what your character is supposed to be capable of) to be somewhat ironic. If one person is exceptionally skilled at PvP (or is playing a class that has an obvious edge) and the other isn't... if you fall into the latter, how's that any different from having a shitty roll streak?

[Kerrath]

edit: nvm, really off-topic. my post was in regards to roll systems, which is off topic.

[Faye]

I also find the idea of the reasoning for preferring dueling over rolls (feeling like you have a lack of control over what's left to fate versus what your character is supposed to be capable of) to be somewhat ironic. If one person is exceptionally skilled at PvP (or is playing a class that has an obvious edge) and the other isn't... if you fall into the latter, how's that any different from having a shitty roll streak?

 

I think the idea of losing because you're worse at dueling (or playing the class with the disadvantage, or lower level, or whatever the case is) is at least easier to stomach for a lot of people than losing because of literal random chance. Also I wouldn't call it a lack of writing proficiency, I've known people who like to duel to pre-determine the winner then actually write out the fight, whereas in rolling you get situations that make no sense but happen anyway because that roll succeeded/failed, or people who just get exceptionally lazy because it's all based on the rolls, so who cares if the emotes are well-written/make sense/are fair. Buuut Kerrath raised a good point that this is probably getting off topic. >_>;

[Aoi Fukiku]

Going back to people who whisper emotes...

 

I do what Faye said and post in say to get them out but so many say they are suffering from anxiety and can't handle RP in public and I know not everyone is perfect so I do give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

It has happened a few times. At first, I was like, okay. Fair enough, right? Then the red flag would be how clingy they became or complain if you didn't reply in a few seconds (or spam post at you while in the middle of typing). Then one got angry at me when someone started to RP in say at me and I replied. How dare I!?

 

At this point I just avoid it all together. I get people suffer from anxiety but I shouldn't be forced in to my own attack just from trying to appease you.

[Mermaid]

Going back to people who whisper emotes...

 

I do what Faye said and post in say to get them out but so many say they are suffering from anxiety and can't handle RP in public and I know not everyone is perfect so I do give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

It has happened a few times. At first, I was like, okay. Fair enough, right? Then the red flag would be how clingy they became or complain if you didn't reply in a few seconds (or spam post at you while in the middle of typing). Then one got angry at me when someone started to RP in say at me and I replied. How dare I!?

 

At this point I just avoid it all together. I get people suffer from anxiety but I shouldn't be forced in to my own attack just from trying to appease you.

 

As someone who deals with a combination of anxiety and hating my own writing...that just blows my mind. How are you so timid that you can't RP in public but you're still ballsy enough to berate someone? Someone teach me this secret.

[Talamh]

It is not a lack of writing proficiency mind you. It is more that I can't see it.

 

If someone has it stated, that they are a fantastic swordsman ( Not godmodder ), and yet gets punked out by every complete stranger on the street because of the way the dice came down. It just takes me out of it. I'd rather see the person being able to prove it, than to watch a slow and arduous battle of the texts.

 

( Do note I've just woken up so, my mind isn't all there, but I hope I can explain it well enough still.. )

 

To me, this just comes across as nothing more than two people jumping over tables saying "pewpew" to each other, and that is why I can't do it nor want to do it, and if someone tries to get me into it, I've always said that it's one of the things I won't do because of this disconnect. I just find no enjoyment in it.

 

In Star Trek Online, I tried a modified variation that worked " slightly better " for me, which was to RP while fighting some enemies we came across so, for me personally that way is better. When you can do A, B and C so to say.

 

Everyone's different, after all.

I hope I made myself more clear now.

[Kerrath]

If someone has it stated, that they are a fantastic swordsman ( Not godmodder ), and yet gets punked out by every complete stranger on the street because of the way the dice came down. It just takes me out of it. I'd rather see the person being able to prove it, than to watch a slow and arduous battle of the texts.

dice rolls will decide if you win or lose, but not how you win or lose--and rp is all about your ability to improvise.

 

there's also no real effective way to 'prove' it.

[Talamh]

If someone has it stated, that they are a fantastic swordsman ( Not godmodder ), and yet gets punked out by every complete stranger on the street because of the way the dice came down. It just takes me out of it. I'd rather see the person being able to prove it, than to watch a slow and arduous battle of the texts.

dice rolls will decide if you win or lose, but not how you win or lose--and rp is all about your ability to improvise.

 

there's also no real effective way to 'prove' it.

 

By actually fighting, you'd prove it.

That is why I can't, do dice rolls.

[Ramen]

I'm reminded of when Omar Little dies near the end of the wire. The dude goes around town as this badass and when he walks down the street people yell OMARS COMING! But toward the end of the series Omar is killed off by this little kid while doing something simple like going to the store.

 

I mean sure you've got yourself a master swordsman but the way I see it while you've got your own story going. While you're the master swordsman there is someone else who is up and coming and such a fight doesn't have to end in you winning just because you say your character is better. A character always has room to be surprised. Dice combat is the great equalizer between you and a stranger. Sure it is unforgiving but it is better than getting into an argument with everyone you meet on the street cause you simply have to have the best character. If you don't want to lose in dice combat then get with like minded people who don't mind your character beating up theirs all the time.

 

I lose a lot of rolls, so do a lot of people I know who are older and more experienced badasses. Usually you try to let them have their moment to shine by making their victory as rewarding or interesting for them as you hope they'd make it for you. If it doesn't work out, whatever.

[Talamh]

I'm reminded of when Omar Little dies near the end of the wire. The dude goes around town as this badass and when he walks down the street people yell OMARS COMING! But toward the end of the series Omar is killed off by this little kid while doing something simple like going to the store.

 

I mean sure you've got yourself a master swordsman but the way I see it while you've got your own story going. While you're the master swordsman there is someone else who is up and coming and such a fight doesn't have to end in you winning just because you say your character is better. A character always has room to be surprised. Dice combat is the great equalizer between you and a stranger. Sure it is unforgiving but it is better than getting into an argument with everyone you meet on the street cause you simply have to have the best character. If you don't want to lose in dice combat then get with like minded people who don't mind your character beating up theirs all the time.

 

I lose a lot of rolls, so do a lot of people I know who are older and more experienced badasses. Usually you try to let them have their moment to shine by making their victory as rewarding or interesting for them as you hope they'd make it for you. If it doesn't work out, whatever.

 

 

I feel like I'm trying to explain it over and over and over but people misinterpret my meaning, or even assumes wrongly. When I made my first post in this thread, it was under the assumption of " This is my red flag, and therefore I won't do it. " but I find myself having to try and explain better and better each time.

 

The reason I took this 'master swordsman' as example it's because it's what I have observed some to have proclaimed themselves as, only to almost immediately get undone by someone kicking them in the shins. Compare this to, let's say the movie Yojimbo by Akira Kurosawa. His the titular character would been undone in the first five minutes of the movie. Or we could take a book as well for example, there's plenty of those.

 

Now, I won't rule lawyer what others do of course but let's look at it from a realistic standpoint. If someone pulls a sword in a tavern and threaten to cut someone else down, the tavern would erupt into confusion and concern with some fleeing for the streets and some try to stop the troublemakers. Heck, if it'd be on the street, in the city, you'd have the whole parade of the city guard to rush up to stop them. Naturally this doesn't happen and in my experience of observing this from people is that, no one interrupts their bubble. Occasionally you'll have someone try to interrupt the two combatants but it will usually result in that they ignore that one's concern, or they'll become scornful towards that person.

 

So with all this in mind - There's absolutely no way I can comprehend two people trying to sword fight - or threaten with magic spells - in the middle of a busy street or the likes and not get punished severely for it. Two people in the middle of nowhere however? That's more comprehensible.

 

But frankly, when it comes to me, I'd preferably just be let out of it.

Unless we can actually have, a duel.

 

I hope I finally explained well enough, my point.

 

 

 

tl;dr

When two people fight and no one else cares, it's isolated bubbles in a lake.

In the strictest, simplest way of putting it.

 

[Gegenji]

I am of a mind that disliking dice rolls is a preference more than a flag. Unless the fact that the person is a dice-roller for combat makes you more wary of RPing with them even in non-combat situations where dice isn't being used. It's ultimately just a preference of dealing with combat and just because someone prefers that sort of combat shouldn't really be considered a red flag for overall RP purposes - just for if you want to do something fighty with them or expect to be doing a lot of combat with or against them in your RP.

 

And, as an aside, I wonder if part of the reason folks don't jump in to help try and handle a fight that breaks out in a public place is just due to either:

a.) being afraid of imposing themselves on the RP, or

b.) they've been berated/ignored/burned enough times from trying that they just don't give up.

But that's a discussion for another thread, methinks.

[Aegir]

My characters tend to have their specializations (my Garlean is resourceful and a decent sniper, but shit in a melee and not scholarly/ my Monetarist is clever and shrewd, but is basically defenseless) or they are low leveled. The Vath Aegir is a shit fighter, not very smart, and cowardly. My Dotharl is 12, he is an extremely good fighter for a 12 year old, but anyone above... 16 should be able to kick his ass.

 

I've noticed that I occasionally attract people who will gravitate towards my characters and use them as an outlet to flaunt their characters superior strength or intelligence. (Yes, if you punch my Monetarist in the face, he will be VERY hurt. Congratulations?) I play a lot of bad guys, so losing doesn't bother me. But I try to look for the red flags that tell me the relationship is only to make their character look awesome.

 

I'm wary of people who complain a little tooooo much about /random. Or who spend a lot of time OOCly talking about beating the crap out of my character.

 

I admire people who can roll with /random and still stay true to their character. My roommate plays a guy who is suppose to be a good brawler, but his rolls are HILARIOUSLY bad, ALL the time. But I think he manages to write his losses in a way that stays true to his character and shows that he is trying his best and is fighting as intelligently as he can.

 

I've definitely noticed that a lot of rpers think their character is the strongest guy in the room. So what happens when the best sword fighter gets in a fight with the best sword fighter?

 

That's why I like random. I also like just rping the situation out. But I think that requires getting to know the player first, so you know you aren't going to be stuck in a "nut-uh, I dodged" battle for 7 hours. Even when you're with your friends, you might think "my guy is stronger than his guy at X."

[Faye]

-snip-

 

I don't think... anyone has been misinterpreting, unless you've been misphrasing? I agree with Chachanji that sounds more like a preference than a red flag, but for you maybe that is a red flag and you're welcome to continue considering it as one, people are just pointing out the logic you've given for it doesn't make sense to us. I can agree it might be less frustrating to lose a duel than a random dice roll, but a PvP duel proves nothing more about your character's skill and how the fight would realistically play out than a random dice roll does. I understand your distaste for rolling, I just... don't get how you think dueling is so much better when your concerns are based on characters unrealistically/unfairly losing, which is just as much an issue in PvPing?

 

I'm not sure what people fighting in the middle of the tavern has to do with rolling vs. not rolling, that just sounds like bad RP, but in my experience (maybe it's just that I play a female character and people wanna whiteknight, idk) anytime someone has started a conflict with my character in a busy place, I've had people flocking to get involved. What I see more often is the people who are causing a commotion refusing to acknowledge any actions that don't come from the person/people they're trying to harass/fight.

[Kilieit]

I'm wary of people who complain a little tooooo much about /random. Or who spend a lot of time OOCly talking about beating the crap out of my character.

 

Actually, that's a good point even just on its own... I think I tend to stay away from people who spend a lot of time enthusing about getting one particular thing out of our interaction, especially if it's before we even start RPing.

 

Over-focussing on beating him up and making him suffer is a huge one, as is over-focussing on having sex with him. Especially if it's in generic ways and not in ways that are specific to my character's actual history and personality (not the tropes the person thinks he fits into). Either type of scene needs to be handled with maturity, knowledge of the character(s) involved, and a solid IC/OOC split in order for it to be interesting. Someone being so overly invested in... almost in conquering my character, in one way or another, especially without them showing any interest in the knock-on consequences and development it would cause for him? Makes me wary. Especially of what they'll say or do if the scene ends up happening in another way.

 

I do like to pre-discuss potential outcomes, and get a feel for the possibilities in a scene, but that's just it: possibilities. 9 times out of 10 not everything we discussed comes up in the scene. Sometimes none of the things we discussed come up, and often the spontaneous outcome can end up being really enjoyable... when it happens with a partner who's on board.

 

I don't want to feel afraid to pursue that because I think the other person is going to go off on me if they don't get "what they wanted", which, in my experience, is usually some kind of scene where their character comes out on top and mine ends up in the dirt.

 

I find I can't really articulate why it feels so uncomfortable to look back on memories (thankfully, all years old) where this has happened, but... it does.

 

While I was writing this I realised that I've actually rejected offers from strangers to RP on sensitive topics like sexuality and gender before due to the same feeling of concern - that the person probably wants "something specific" out of the scene, rather than to just put our characters together and see what happens. Since those topics are so sensitive on an OOC level, I fear the stranger being OOCly upset if they don't get what they wanted, and accusing me of hurting them on purpose. It ends up that I only RP those topics with friends I've known for a while, despite them playing a major role in most of my characters' outlooks on life...

[Kismet]

-snip-

 

I don't think... anyone has been misinterpreting, unless you've been misphrasing? I agree with Chachanji that sounds more like a preference than a red flag, but for you maybe that is a red flag and you're welcome to continue considering it as one, people are just pointing out the logic you've given for it doesn't make sense to us. I can agree it might be less frustrating to lose a duel than a random dice roll, but a PvP duel proves nothing more about your character's skill and how the fight would realistically play out than a random dice roll does. I understand your distaste for rolling, I just... don't get how you think dueling is so much better when your concerns are based on characters unrealistically/unfairly losing, which is just as much an issue in PvPing?

 

Quoted and bolded for emphasis. This is exactly what I was trying to convey in the latter half of my previous post.

 

Don't get me wrong. As I said in my original response to you, Fear, I'm with you on getting seriously turned off by random dice rolls. (I'm more open-minded about fleshed out systems that have specific types of rolls as a component... Not that I'm a huge fan of those, either.) But I don't see how one method is inherently better than the other. There's nothing wrong with having that perspective, per se. It's merely turned this into a curious examination of your logic. But to each their own, of course.

 

Although, if I were to boil all of this down to its most simplistic components... I'd personally say that all dueling really does is change the form of the dice -- probably flip the odds to be in your favor, since the implication there is that you prefer PvP due to it being something you have direct control over and are actually good at. But the idea that OOC mechanical proficiency should be equivalent to IC skill/experience is not something I think you'll find that most people here agree with.

[Talamh]

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

Quoted and bolded for emphasis. This is exactly what I was trying to convey in the latter half of my previous post.

 

Don't get me wrong. As I said in my original response to you, Fear, I'm with you on getting seriously turned off by random dice rolls. (I'm more open-minded about fleshed out systems that have specific types of rolls as a component... Not that I'm a huge fan of those, either.) But I don't see how one method is inherently better than the other. There's nothing wrong with having that perspective, per se. It's merely turned this into a curious examination of your logic. But to each their own, of course.

 

Although, if I were to boil all of this down to its most simplistic components... I'd personally say that all dueling really does is change the form of the dice -- probably flip the odds to be in your favor, since the implication there is that you prefer PvP due to it being something you have direct control over and are actually good at. But the idea that OOC mechanical proficiency should be equivalent to IC skill/experience is not something I think you'll find that most people here agree with.

 

1. Non-taken wrong :moogle:

 

2. Either I misunderstand you or you misunderstand me.

It is not about experience. You can be the most authorish of author with hundreds if not thousands of published works - But I'd still not be able to " act " that so to say. It is not something I find enjoyable at all and will in fact, only take me out of the experience.

 

Or to attempt to put it in other words, if this was D&D and we sat around a table or such, it'd be easier for me to do this by the nature of that ' style ', but when it comes to an MMO like this, there's a very clear disconnect in my imagination to what's happening around me, which again leads in to what I said earlier about that if two are doing such a duel outside in the middle of a field, this again becomes easier to visualize and imagine compared to two on a busy street.

 

Now two people doing a well-choreographed /slap and /stagger with descriptive text is always a joy to see but therein lies the difference of course.

 

As Aegir said earlier, watching two people continually make more and more ludicrous dodges because no one is willing to back down for 7 hours...

 

But don't take this as " Oh Fear, you just don't have a good imagination " because that'd not be true at all. I just feel the need to stress this so that I don't get misunderstood on that! :frustrated:

 

If this isn't a red flag for some.. Well fine, that is your prerogative to see it that way.

But when someone comes up to me, pulls out their sword with an empty threat, I can't do anything but shrug at them.

I just can't take it seriously..

 

Doesn't mean I won't try under the right circumstances.

It just means that I will preferably avoid it, with everyone, unless someone with a really good reason convinces me otherwise.

[Koro Dotharl]

I am only willing to do combat RP through text and I am more than willing to take losses with or without dices. If you are finding people that godemote their way out of harm for 7hours you just need to find better partners, simple as that. With or without dices, good roleplayers just will not try to screw you over like that.

 

 

I also feel you had a few bad experiences in say, the quicksand? Where some godmoder tried to make a victim out of your character. That's not a representation of the actual nice people out there that will make an effort out of being fair to your character's abilities just as much as they expect you to do the same. Forcing them to do ooc pvp is noooot that. You will probably find a better audience in another game that support RPVP (BDO, WoW, etc). But here in XIV people mostly do that through text only.

[Teadrinker]

I prefer freeform for duels/spars. I dislike tournaments because of the sheer level of "Chef shows up with spoon and rolls 100. You die."

 

In actual plot combat I'll roll 2's all day and play it out. Someone being whiny about the outcome of this type of combat is something I haven't had to deal with in so long, guess I'm just spoiled.

 

EDIT: Knock on wood, kids. Literally 10 hours later....smh.

[Gegenji]

I prefer freeform for duels/spars. I dislike tournaments because of the sheer level of "Chef shows up with spoon and rolls 100. You die."

 

I will agree on that latter point, especially in an event like the Grindstone. Yes, we know we are using a system that is effectively random for the sake of timeliness and fairness. We don't need it lampooned every week by someone coming in with their weapon of choice being cutting remarks or a frozen fish they caught the day before. It's fine every now and then, but making a habit over it is sort of... I dunno, rude to the people running the thing?

 

Bringing it back on topic, though, I think showing disrespect/irreverence to an event (either by mocking it, doing something over-the-top or dramatic to pull attention onto them at said event, or just trolling it) could be a red flag.

 

... Though, I have had Gogon do the whole Statler and Waldorf thing at the Runestone on a pretty regular basis. Am I raising my own red flag? :tonberry:

[Talamh]

I also feel you had a few bad experiences in say, the quicksand?

 

Actually, it was World of Warcraft about 10-11 years ago, and I was only observing many who did it.

It simply just never clicked with me.

 

:dazed:

 

And then I have observed people attempting to do the very same things in FFXIV in Ul'dah and it's like...

Yeah, that's not my thing at all.

 

But I feel like I've said all I can about this topic now.

So next one ~ :arrow:

[Zhavi]

Going by the OP's definition of red flag

 

Things that make you think things like "maybe I shouldn't RP with this person" or "maybe this scene isn't for me". How do you deal with it?

 

Strictly in terms of things I don't enjoy in combat -- anyone whose rp experience and character is solely focused around combat, kicking ass, and being a badass. I don't find anything wrong with them, and they don't make me think 'get away' the same way that people who mix ic/ooc do, but it's just something that I really seriously don't enjoy. I try to make a habit of not doing stuff that I don't enjoy without good reason.

 

That said, the only combat rp I do is freeform. Dice rolls feel too limiting to me, too random for the type of writing I enjoy building with rp partners. So I suppose in the sense of "maybe this scene isn't for me" I could say dice rolls are a red flag of 'we just aren't gonna have fun with each other' if someone only wants to do combat with dice...but there's a lot of other things to rp, and that wouldn't stop me from engaging in other rp with said person, so long as we liked other stuff and had reason to write together and whatnot.

 

To me, the most beautiful combat rp I can hope to read is when two people who really understand combat (martial arts, swords, whatever -- you know, people who participated in some kind of combat sport or ren stuff -- or are just super into understanding the kinesthetics of it -- who are also good at translating it to words) just do a loose back and forth post style. I just won't be participating!

[Edric W.]

Anyone who spills their entire backstory to someone they've only just met. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't remember the last time I walked in to a pub, bought my first pint and said to the nearest person, "Hi there, nice to meet you. Ninjas killed my family when I was 2, then I trained with dragoons for 10 years who let me in because I have special aether." I understand that your ninja-slaying 12 yr old dragoon might be the most interesting character ever fathomed by the human mind, but if you just lay that on me straight from the beginning, it's overbearing.

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with someone letting you know something about their past, just not all of it. That's just my opinion, though. I'm sure someone out there loves this kind of behaviour.

[Perth]

Anyone who spills their entire backstory to someone they've only just met. I don't know about anyone else, but I don't remember the last time I walked in to a pub, bought my first pint and said to the nearest person, "Hi there, nice to meet you. Ninjas killed my family when I was 2, then I trained with dragoons for 10 years who let me in because I have special aether." I understand that your ninja-slaying 12 yr old dragoon might be the most interesting character ever fathomed by the human mind, but if you just lay that on me straight from the beginning, it's overbearing.

 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with someone letting you know something about their past, just not all of it. That's just my opinion, though. I'm sure someone out there loves this kind of behaviour.

 

Oh, I definitely have had people give me their life stories irl when I've just met them in bars - but those people are typically a little loopy or looking for something, be it sympathy, attention, or money.

 

Also Fearthainn, if every person who responds to you seems to be "misunderstanding" you, maybe what your trying to say isn't coming out as intended? It seems like a rather surprisingly large amount of people might not be getting what you're trying to say if you still insist that's not what you mean to their responses

[Rance]

Ah yes, this reminds of the occasion when I allowed one of my characters to be beaten in a freeform RP Fight, because winning all the time is boring. It was a grave mistake because my opponent, judging by her reaction and subsequent encounters with me, never won a RP before.

From that point forward whenever my character crossed paths with hers, she proceeds to insult me and act all high and mighty. Not only that, she invited her friends and they loved to walk into unrelated RPs I had with other people and interrupt them.

It got so annoying to the point I blacklisted her.

Long story short: Pick your opponents wisely, not only as characters but also taking note their OOC behavior.