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Would/could an Ala Mhigan have been given a Garlean-esque name if they had been born during the Garlean occupation of Ala Mhigo? Fordola's surname definitely sounds Garlean, but it might be just something that was given to her once she earned her rank.

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30 minutes ago, Menord said:

Would/could an Ala Mhigan have been given a Garlean-esque name if they had been born during the Garlean occupation of Ala Mhigo? Fordola's surname definitely sounds Garlean, but it might be just something that was given to her once she earned her rank.

 

Her surname is Garlean.  Rem is her rank, Lupis is her unit, if I'm not mistaken.

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Posted (edited)

Technically Garleans have a first name and a surname, and their title as a particle in between. The first name often sounds roman and follows similar conventions. The surname, sometimes yes (Galvus, Scaeva, etc), sometimes, not really (Garlond, Baelsar, Lexentale...), which I heavily suspect to indicate a non garlean ancestry somewhere...

 

Either way you have the possibility as showcased directly in lore with Fordola Rem Lupis to have a character with a native Ala-mighan name that the character chose to toss away for a more garlean styled name. Fordola's group/unit of militia took the name of Lupi (wolves) to sound threatening/whatever. 

 

Not directly seen in lore though, parents naming their child born during the garlean occupation with a garlean name doesn't seem far fetched to me, quite the contrary. Why wouldn't that happen? Or, even better, the child taken as a ward for true blood aristocratic garleans and raised as such with a proper name? I mean, your options are many.

Edited by Valence

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20 hours ago, Valence said:

Technically Garleans have a first name and a surname, and their title as a particle in between. The first name often sounds roman and follows similar conventions. The surname, sometimes yes (Galvus, Scaeva, etc), sometimes, not really (Garlond, Baelsar, Lexentale...), which I heavily suspect to indicate a non garlean ancestry somewhere...

 

The argument against that is that Cid Garlond is a "full blooded" Garlean, hence the 'third eye' on his forehead. But that doesn't mean what composes Garlemald today was always a united culture. I would even say it is likely there was more than one culture, with distinct names and customs, before being united under one flag. Obviously the ones with the Romanesque names were the winners, but some people held on to their traditional family names (as people tend to do). Though I would say it is likely there is a common ancestry in the distant past, before unification, which is why people without the Romanesque names can be "full blooded" and have the third eye.  Though the 'distant past' may not be that distant, as we know almost nothing about the Empire's history before 50-ish years ago.

Edited by Tregarde

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39 minutes ago, Tregarde said:

The argument against that is that Cid Garlond is a "full blooded" Garlean, hence the 'third eye' on his forehead. But that doesn't mean what composes Garlemald today was always a united culture. I would even say it is likely there was more than one culture, with distinct names and customs, before being united under one flag. Obviously the ones with the Romanesque names were the winners, but some people held on to their traditional family names (as people tend to do). Though I would say it is likely there is a common ancestry in the distant past, before unification, which is why people without the Romanesque names can be "full blooded" and have the third eye.

 

Going off of this, there is a bit of lore from the new Ridorana raid that would seem to support this (popping below the spoiler):

Spoiler

Company Tragedienne: "Since our last chat, I have been thinking. The Garlean Republic - now the Garlean Empire - was originally established by seven tribes, one of which now appears to have been the remnant of a people who, thousands of summers past, migrated from a city thought to be a legend. But if we Garleans descended from Gougans, who did the Gougans descend from? And who did those people descend from? And those people? If you go back far enough, do we arrive at a single tribe? A single person? They say this world will never be free of strife, but is that merely because we have lost sight of who we are and whence we came? Would you raise your sword to another if you knew he was your own flesh and blood?"

 

23 hours ago, Menord said:

Would/could an Ala Mhigan have been given a Garlean-esque name if they had been born during the Garlean occupation of Ala Mhigo? Fordola's surname definitely sounds Garlean, but it might be just something that was given to her once she earned her rank.

 

This depends greatly upon the parents, I would think, or the character and their feelings on the Empire. Fordola rem Lupis, Rhitatyn sas Arvina, and Asahi sas Brutus are good examples of conscripted officers who support the Empire, but whose forenames retain the naming conventions of their birth: Fordola is Ala Mhigan highlander, Rhitatyn means "Right Judge" in the Roegadyn tongue, and Asahi is Doman Hyur. However, their Garlean title (indicating social hierarchy) and surname are Garlean. This set up may be indicative that they are conscripts, we don't know for sure. However, if a parent who embraced the Empire's rule really wished to name their child first and last with Garlean conventions, I don't think anyone would look down on that. 

 

21 hours ago, Valence said:

Fordola's group/unit of militia took the name of Lupi (wolves) to sound threatening/whatever.

 

Small note about this, the Crania Lupi (aka the Skulls, or Skulls of the Wolf) where Fordola takes her surname, is a reference to Gaius van Baelsar, the Black Wolf. The Crania Lupi represent one of Gaius's many more demoralizing annexation tactics where children were trained and raised to be "Garlean", then later made to do the dirty work of a police state. 

 

Conrad: "Crania Lupi. The Black Wolf’s legacy, and our shame. A unit made up of children born to Ala Mhigan dignitaries who came of age during the occupation. Sons and daughters of Gyr Abania raised to be proud citizens of the Empire, with all the rights and responsibilities that entails. It’d be easy to curse them and call them traitors, but they’re our children. Our flesh and blood! If the only way to forge the future we want is to cut down our own, then…"

 

Whether Fordola took up the surname Lupis (Wolf) because she came to lead the Crania Lupis or because she fully bought into the Children of Gaius idealism of "work hard, prove yourself to your Empire, and become a part of that Empire" I'm not entirely sure. I think its more the latter since we don't really see any other examples of soldiers taking the surname of their cohorts - though admittedly our sample size of conscripted Garlean surnames is fairly low. 

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18 hours ago, Tregarde said:

 

The argument against that is that Cid Garlond is a "full blooded" Garlean, hence the 'third eye' on his forehead. But that doesn't mean what composes Garlemald today was always a united culture. I would even say it is likely there was more than one culture, with distinct names and customs, before being united under one flag. Obviously the ones with the Romanesque names were the winners, but some people held on to their traditional family names (as people tend to do). Though I would say it is likely there is a common ancestry in the distant past, before unification, which is why people without the Romanesque names can be "full blooded" and have the third eye.  Though the 'distant past' may not be that distant, as we know almost nothing about the Empire's history before 50-ish years ago.

 

Against what? I'm a little confused, I think I said more or less the same thing? 

 

Anyway it's rather hard to tell precisely whose version is the original from Garlemald ancestors, and whose comes from assimilated cultures. Roman names or the non roman ones? I can't say. If the difference is even a thing that the writers actually wanted to begin with...

Edited by Valence

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19 hours ago, Valence said:

Against what? I'm a little confused, I think I said more or less the same thing?

 

Earlier you said "... which I heavily suspect to indicate a non garlean ancestry somewhere."  I was saying that these people with non-Roman names are Garleans. If they were not Garleans, they would not have the third eye, because only full blooded Garleans have the third eye.

 

See also Sounsyy's reply in the spoiler -box above.

Edited by Tregarde

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Posted (edited)

Having a non garlean ancestry doesn't necessarily equate to not being garlean. And yes indeed that spoiler box above indicates a point of origin that isn't even remotely close to current Garlemald. 

 

But the fact remains that we have literally zero clues if there was any cultural integration at some point, what happened during the migration, how did they mingle with conquered people in Ilsabard, etc. Are the people of G---- the very same as the ones from Garlemald? Or to the contrary, did they evolve? Did they mingle? What happened? 

Edited by Valence

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Something I wondered after doing some Heavensward questing. Did Aymeric always have his own noble house or did they give it to him after the spoiler stuff with the archbishop?

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Aymeric has always been part of a noble house. He was adopted by count de Borel as a child, bastard reject of Thordan.

 

Quote

Encylcopedia Eorzea - Ser Aymeric de Borel is the lord commander of the Temple Knights and, as rumors suggest, the bastard son of Archbishop Thordan VII. Owing to his father's influence, he was adopted at birth by an aged viscount of House Borel, whose wife was barren. Though they treated him as their own flesh and blood, rumors of his status as a bastard and his father's true identity eventually found their way to him. And so, after being inducted into the Temple Knights, Ser Aymeric hoped he might one day be granted an audience with the archbishop to learn the whole truth. 

Edited by Valence

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Do we have any clue where lies the now defunct city of Bozja? It's said to be a Garlean/Imperial city, but is also pointed as an imperial citadel. Hard to be more vague, knowing that imperial could mean in Ilsabard or the recently conquered Othard. 

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3 hours ago, Valence said:

Do we have any clue where lies the now defunct city of Bozja? It's said to be a Garlean/Imperial city, but is also pointed as an imperial citadel. Hard to be more vague, knowing that imperial could mean in Ilsabard or the recently conquered Othard. 

 

The city of Bozja was, until fifteen years ago, located somewhere in Othard. So far the best theory is that it was in the region now known as the Burn, though this may or may not be true based on recent dialogue on why the Burn is the way it is. The stated reasoning lines up with 1.0 lore on the original reason why the Imperial anti-eikon edict was issued, but it could also be a complete propaganda fabrication by the Imperial Censors to hide what really caused the Burn. We don't know for sure yet.

 

Spoiler

Maxima: "We are presently passing over the Burn on the western edge of Othard. Even with the benefit of a porthole, your gaze would have been greeted with naught but malms upon malms of lifeless earth."

 

Alphinaud: "I have read something of the Burn. It was described as a desolate wasteland, bled dry of every last drop of aether..."

 

Maxima: "Aye. It is believed that a succession of eikon summonings was responsible. When Emperor Solus first came to Othard and beheld this blight, he is said to have reeled at the scale of the devastation. He declared eikons a threat to our very star's existence, and issued an Empire-wide decree ordering the eradication of all such entities."

 

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Chronicles of the Sixth Astral Era:
1562 -
 “On the continent of Othard, Grand Minister Midas nan Garlond conducts the first field test of the Meteor Project at the Citadel Bozja. A massive quantity of energy is released from Dalamud, obliterating the tower and the surrounding city, causing heavy casualties.”

 

Encyclopedia Eorzea - The Meteor Project Revisited: "The Meteor Project was soon drafted and the tantalizing prospect of an all-powerful weapon was met with broad approval within the Imperial Court. Mere days after receiving the Emperor’s blessing, nan Garlond would travel to the Garlean city of Bozja to conduct the first attempt to communicate with Dalamud. The immensity of the satellite’s power was indeed confirmed that day, but at a disastrous cost. Nearly five millennia-worth of amassed energy was directed by the moon to the citadel’s makeshift transmission tower. The beam emitted by Dalamud was so intense that not only the tower, but the entire city was evaporated in an instant. Efforts were made by the Imperial Censors to hide the event from public scrutiny, but the vanishing of a major commercial center was too big a secret to suppress. News of the catastrophe quickly spread across Hydaelyn and later became known as the Bozja Incident."

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8 hours ago, Sounsyy said:

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Chronicles of the Sixth Astral Era:
1562 -
 “On the continent of Othard, Grand Minister Midas nan Garlond conducts the first field test of the Meteor Project at the Citadel Bozja. A massive quantity of energy is released from Dalamud, obliterating the tower and the surrounding city, causing heavy casualties.”

 

Ah, that's the part I systematically missed while parsing the lorebook yersterday it seems... Thanks.

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I may have missed this in the quest text somewhere (or another post on these forums despite my searching), but the whole breathing underwater thing... is that a "WoL and friends" only thing.... or can any Joe Bob Adventurer (or otherwise) show up and get the blessing?

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17 minutes ago, AedanBlacke said:

I may have missed this in the quest text somewhere (or another post on these forums despite my searching), but the whole breathing underwater thing... is that a "WoL and friends" only thing.... or can any Joe Bob Adventurer (or otherwise) show up and get the blessing?

 

It's a "blessing" in the sense of a kojin ability/skill. All of the Raen from Sui-no-Sato also have it. It's likely something that's available to people associated with that area, although we haven't seen say, the Confederacy pirates getting the blessing. 

My personal take on it would be if your character's on good terms with the blue kojin, you'd probably have a decent in for it. Otherwise, there's always holding your breath like Thancred.

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Posted (edited)

I'm working on the story of a Hingan samurai instructor who started teaching people outside the country before getting assassinated by ninjas. I had initally though the ninjas would be agents from Hingashi, punishing him for teaching the samurai art abroad, but is that a crime in Hingashi? Should I vary it up a bit?

Edited by Kallera

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I don't think it's a crime per se but it surely will be highly frowned upon. We have to keep in mind that samurai are the high hingan and doman caste of warriors that are akin to lower and high aristocracy, much like during Edo Japan.This can range from Ji-samurai (IRL denomination) that were basically country samurai, rather poor tenants but part of the warrior caste nonetheless and never lowering themselves to other crafts than combat and martial arts, to noble daymios or imperial families. The only exception to this rule in Hingashi is the Seikisegumi that is composed of commoners to apply the law in the foreign port district of Kugane. They are looked down by their true samurai peers by the way, if I remember my SAM questline correctly.

 

So as you see it's already a matter of castes, teaching foreigners to actually be samurai? Sounds like heresy to me, or more exactly, disturbing the correct order of things. And yet that's exactly what the samurai trainer (Musoshai) does with the WoL. But he's an exile right? Who cares as long as he stays away right? Sounds similar to your idea, but I don't see why some wealthy and zealous/bigot samurai from a noble hingan house or two wouldn't care... and send their shinobi after him/her?

 

Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into IRL though. Take it with a grain of salt.

Edited by Valence

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7 hours ago, Valence said:

Maybe I'm reading a bit too much into IRL though. Take it with a grain of salt.

That's the thing with the lore in this game. A lot of it is extremely vague I assume so they can detail it in ways fitting to the story later. For example, people interpreted Dotharl as bloodthirsty murderhobos then Stormblood actually explored them and we learned they were really aggressive reincarnation fanatics. What player would have made that leap in logic? So when we aren't given enough information we're left to fill in the details ourselves and RL is the safest and easiest way to do that.

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I'm not totally sure how the Dotharl being fond of slaughter has been somehow invalidated by SB release though....? 

 

Quote

An extremely violent tribe with members who revel in massacre and are taught from a young age not to fear death. While they are quick to attack other tribes, mortality rates are high, ensuring that their numbers never grow too high.

 

The only side we didn't know of them was the explanation behind the bloodthirsty behavior, because they believe in reincarnation. If people chose to forego everything that we knew of them before, then I don't know what to say. The Dotharl remain bloodthirsty warriors that will kill and maim as they revel in battle. The only thing SB and the namazu quests showed us was that most xaela tribes don't spend their time fighting each other all the time and have an actual culture, sheep herders, traditions, horse riding, etc. That's it's not just black and white with warrior tribes like the Adarkim, Dotharl, etc, and peaceful tribes like the Uyagir, shying from the outside world in caves (that are showed to still fight like demons when threatened by an hostile tribe in a FATE nearby their caves btw).

 

And SB also showed us the yearly Nadaam which is a rather brutal affair with its fair amount of dead and maimed. The Xaela have always been portrayed as this duality between peaceful life in a harsh environment and an unforgiving warrior culture that tends to scare even the garleans. 

 

Anyway yes, the Dotharl are aggressive reincarnation fanatics, and the only difference is that RPers didn't know about the reincarnation part before SB came out. 

 

However I definitely see your point and taking the Nadaam for example, it has very little to do with the actual IRL old mongolian Nadaam, let alone the more modern incarnation of it.

Edited by Valence

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1 hour ago, Valence said:

I'm not totally sure how the Dotharl being fond of slaughter has been somehow invalidated by SB release though....?

I never said it was. 'Aggressive' was 100% intended to mean they're violent but I probably missed some commas and didn't relay that properly.

 

1 hour ago, Valence said:

The only thing SB and the namazu quests showed us was that most xaela tribes don't spend their time fighting each other all the time and have an actual culture, sheep herders, traditions, horse riding, etc. That's it's not just black and white with warrior tribes like the Adarkim, Dotharl, etc, and peaceful tribes like the Uyagir, shying from the outside world in caves (that are showed to still fight like demons when threatened by an hostile tribe in a FATE nearby their caves btw).

And this was the big thing it showed us. Back in HW the Dotharl characters were the ones that were always looking for 'Dark' and 'Mature' RP. They'd pick fights in the Quicksand and Pearl Lane constantly. During these these times, if you wanted to find the edgiest character in the bar you looked for a Xaela Dark Knight and 9 times out of 10 he was a Dotharl.

 

These days? You still see them pick fights regularly but the characters tend to be much more thought out. They're often confident and/or arrogant because now, it's not just a case of not fearing death, players know these character believe they'll just be reborn if they die. They have backgrounds involving their tribal roots. And while it's still common to find those edgy Xaela Dark Knights, there's a lot more interesting and varied Xaela characters now.

 

But really this is getting off topic. Going back to my original point I was merely saying that RL based information is relevant until SE comes along and details things. A Hingan samurai instructor killed by ninjas sounds believable enough to me and you just have to hope SE doesn't come along and contradict you. Considering how often they like to make the Warrior of Light one of the few people in Eorzea/the world allowed to be a certain job I'd say the odds are in your favor.

Edited by Mermaid

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Okay so I parsed through what I could find to back up a bit what I claimed above:

 

Quote

Makoto
We Hingans live by a rigid caste system, wherein one's standing in society is inherited rather than earned. My comrade - he hailed from a poor farming village. His family grew scarcely enough to pay their lord his dues, and it was all they could do not to starve.

 

In order to escape the shackles of his birth, he sought a new life in Kugane, a more progressive district, where a man may yet rise above his station. 

 

He became a samurai in hopes that he might one day have the power to bring about change - change to an irrational system that holds people hostage to their birth.

 

Souls such as him make up the Sekiseigumi, those raised with a plow in hand, and not a blade. You'll find none among us born into a samurai family; ours is a ragtag band gathered from the lower rungs of society. Yet for our disparate origins, we are patriots all.

 

Quote

Shiden

In the beginning I was overjoyed - finally, I could make a difference! But reality couldn't be more different, and ere long I came to see the Sekiseigumi for what it was: a tool of the powers that be, glorified guardsmen who patrol the streets for petty criminals.

 

Quote

Momozigo

Now, look at yourselves. None of you were born into samurai families, but through hard work, you've made it this far - become who you wanted to be.

 

Edited by Valence

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