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Would/could an Ala Mhigan have been given a Garlean-esque name if they had been born during the Garlean occupation of Ala Mhigo? Fordola's surname definitely sounds Garlean, but it might be just something that was given to her once she earned her rank.

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30 minutes ago, Menord said:

Would/could an Ala Mhigan have been given a Garlean-esque name if they had been born during the Garlean occupation of Ala Mhigo? Fordola's surname definitely sounds Garlean, but it might be just something that was given to her once she earned her rank.

 

Her surname is Garlean.  Rem is her rank, Lupis is her unit, if I'm not mistaken.

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Technically Garleans have a first name and a surname, and their title as a particle in between. The first name often sounds roman and follows similar conventions. The surname, sometimes yes (Galvus, Scaeva, etc), sometimes, not really (Garlond, Baelsar, Lexentale...), which I heavily suspect to indicate a non garlean ancestry somewhere...

 

Either way you have the possibility as showcased directly in lore with Fordola Rem Lupis to have a character with a native Ala-mighan name that the character chose to toss away for a more garlean styled name. Fordola's group/unit of militia took the name of Lupi (wolves) to sound threatening/whatever. 

 

Not directly seen in lore though, parents naming their child born during the garlean occupation with a garlean name doesn't seem far fetched to me, quite the contrary. Why wouldn't that happen? Or, even better, the child taken as a ward for true blood aristocratic garleans and raised as such with a proper name? I mean, your options are many.

Edited by Valence

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20 hours ago, Valence said:

Technically Garleans have a first name and a surname, and their title as a particle in between. The first name often sounds roman and follows similar conventions. The surname, sometimes yes (Galvus, Scaeva, etc), sometimes, not really (Garlond, Baelsar, Lexentale...), which I heavily suspect to indicate a non garlean ancestry somewhere...

 

The argument against that is that Cid Garlond is a "full blooded" Garlean, hence the 'third eye' on his forehead. But that doesn't mean what composes Garlemald today was always a united culture. I would even say it is likely there was more than one culture, with distinct names and customs, before being united under one flag. Obviously the ones with the Romanesque names were the winners, but some people held on to their traditional family names (as people tend to do). Though I would say it is likely there is a common ancestry in the distant past, before unification, which is why people without the Romanesque names can be "full blooded" and have the third eye.  Though the 'distant past' may not be that distant, as we know almost nothing about the Empire's history before 50-ish years ago.

Edited by Tregarde

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39 minutes ago, Tregarde said:

The argument against that is that Cid Garlond is a "full blooded" Garlean, hence the 'third eye' on his forehead. But that doesn't mean what composes Garlemald today was always a united culture. I would even say it is likely there was more than one culture, with distinct names and customs, before being united under one flag. Obviously the ones with the Romanesque names were the winners, but some people held on to their traditional family names (as people tend to do). Though I would say it is likely there is a common ancestry in the distant past, before unification, which is why people without the Romanesque names can be "full blooded" and have the third eye.

 

Going off of this, there is a bit of lore from the new Ridorana raid that would seem to support this (popping below the spoiler):

Spoiler

Company Tragedienne: "Since our last chat, I have been thinking. The Garlean Republic - now the Garlean Empire - was originally established by seven tribes, one of which now appears to have been the remnant of a people who, thousands of summers past, migrated from a city thought to be a legend. But if we Garleans descended from Gougans, who did the Gougans descend from? And who did those people descend from? And those people? If you go back far enough, do we arrive at a single tribe? A single person? They say this world will never be free of strife, but is that merely because we have lost sight of who we are and whence we came? Would you raise your sword to another if you knew he was your own flesh and blood?"

 

23 hours ago, Menord said:

Would/could an Ala Mhigan have been given a Garlean-esque name if they had been born during the Garlean occupation of Ala Mhigo? Fordola's surname definitely sounds Garlean, but it might be just something that was given to her once she earned her rank.

 

This depends greatly upon the parents, I would think, or the character and their feelings on the Empire. Fordola rem Lupis, Rhitatyn sas Arvina, and Asahi sas Brutus are good examples of conscripted officers who support the Empire, but whose forenames retain the naming conventions of their birth: Fordola is Ala Mhigan highlander, Rhitatyn means "Right Judge" in the Roegadyn tongue, and Asahi is Doman Hyur. However, their Garlean title (indicating social hierarchy) and surname are Garlean. This set up may be indicative that they are conscripts, we don't know for sure. However, if a parent who embraced the Empire's rule really wished to name their child first and last with Garlean conventions, I don't think anyone would look down on that. 

 

21 hours ago, Valence said:

Fordola's group/unit of militia took the name of Lupi (wolves) to sound threatening/whatever.

 

Small note about this, the Crania Lupi (aka the Skulls, or Skulls of the Wolf) where Fordola takes her surname, is a reference to Gaius van Baelsar, the Black Wolf. The Crania Lupi represent one of Gaius's many more demoralizing annexation tactics where children were trained and raised to be "Garlean", then later made to do the dirty work of a police state. 

 

Conrad: "Crania Lupi. The Black Wolf’s legacy, and our shame. A unit made up of children born to Ala Mhigan dignitaries who came of age during the occupation. Sons and daughters of Gyr Abania raised to be proud citizens of the Empire, with all the rights and responsibilities that entails. It’d be easy to curse them and call them traitors, but they’re our children. Our flesh and blood! If the only way to forge the future we want is to cut down our own, then…"

 

Whether Fordola took up the surname Lupis (Wolf) because she came to lead the Crania Lupis or because she fully bought into the Children of Gaius idealism of "work hard, prove yourself to your Empire, and become a part of that Empire" I'm not entirely sure. I think its more the latter since we don't really see any other examples of soldiers taking the surname of their cohorts - though admittedly our sample size of conscripted Garlean surnames is fairly low. 

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18 hours ago, Tregarde said:

 

The argument against that is that Cid Garlond is a "full blooded" Garlean, hence the 'third eye' on his forehead. But that doesn't mean what composes Garlemald today was always a united culture. I would even say it is likely there was more than one culture, with distinct names and customs, before being united under one flag. Obviously the ones with the Romanesque names were the winners, but some people held on to their traditional family names (as people tend to do). Though I would say it is likely there is a common ancestry in the distant past, before unification, which is why people without the Romanesque names can be "full blooded" and have the third eye.  Though the 'distant past' may not be that distant, as we know almost nothing about the Empire's history before 50-ish years ago.

 

Against what? I'm a little confused, I think I said more or less the same thing? 

 

Anyway it's rather hard to tell precisely whose version is the original from Garlemald ancestors, and whose comes from assimilated cultures. Roman names or the non roman ones? I can't say. If the difference is even a thing that the writers actually wanted to begin with...

Edited by Valence

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19 hours ago, Valence said:

Against what? I'm a little confused, I think I said more or less the same thing?

 

Earlier you said "... which I heavily suspect to indicate a non garlean ancestry somewhere."  I was saying that these people with non-Roman names are Garleans. If they were not Garleans, they would not have the third eye, because only full blooded Garleans have the third eye.

 

See also Sounsyy's reply in the spoiler -box above.

Edited by Tregarde

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Having a non garlean ancestry doesn't necessarily equate to not being garlean. And yes indeed that spoiler box above indicates a point of origin that isn't even remotely close to current Garlemald. 

 

But the fact remains that we have literally zero clues if there was any cultural integration at some point, what happened during the migration, how did they mingle with conquered people in Ilsabard, etc. Are the people of G---- the very same as the ones from Garlemald? Or to the contrary, did they evolve? Did they mingle? What happened? 

Edited by Valence

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Something I wondered after doing some Heavensward questing. Did Aymeric always have his own noble house or did they give it to him after the spoiler stuff with the archbishop?

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Aymeric has always been part of a noble house. He was adopted by count de Borel as a child, bastard reject of Thordan.

 

Quote

Encylcopedia Eorzea - Ser Aymeric de Borel is the lord commander of the Temple Knights and, as rumors suggest, the bastard son of Archbishop Thordan VII. Owing to his father's influence, he was adopted at birth by an aged viscount of House Borel, whose wife was barren. Though they treated him as their own flesh and blood, rumors of his status as a bastard and his father's true identity eventually found their way to him. And so, after being inducted into the Temple Knights, Ser Aymeric hoped he might one day be granted an audience with the archbishop to learn the whole truth. 

Edited by Valence

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Do we have any clue where lies the now defunct city of Bozja? It's said to be a Garlean/Imperial city, but is also pointed as an imperial citadel. Hard to be more vague, knowing that imperial could mean in Ilsabard or the recently conquered Othard. 

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3 hours ago, Valence said:

Do we have any clue where lies the now defunct city of Bozja? It's said to be a Garlean/Imperial city, but is also pointed as an imperial citadel. Hard to be more vague, knowing that imperial could mean in Ilsabard or the recently conquered Othard. 

 

The city of Bozja was, until fifteen years ago, located somewhere in Othard. So far the best theory is that it was in the region now known as the Burn, though this may or may not be true based on recent dialogue on why the Burn is the way it is. The stated reasoning lines up with 1.0 lore on the original reason why the Imperial anti-eikon edict was issued, but it could also be a complete propaganda fabrication by the Imperial Censors to hide what really caused the Burn. We don't know for sure yet.

 

Spoiler

Maxima: "We are presently passing over the Burn on the western edge of Othard. Even with the benefit of a porthole, your gaze would have been greeted with naught but malms upon malms of lifeless earth."

 

Alphinaud: "I have read something of the Burn. It was described as a desolate wasteland, bled dry of every last drop of aether..."

 

Maxima: "Aye. It is believed that a succession of eikon summonings was responsible. When Emperor Solus first came to Othard and beheld this blight, he is said to have reeled at the scale of the devastation. He declared eikons a threat to our very star's existence, and issued an Empire-wide decree ordering the eradication of all such entities."

 

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Chronicles of the Sixth Astral Era:
1562 -
 “On the continent of Othard, Grand Minister Midas nan Garlond conducts the first field test of the Meteor Project at the Citadel Bozja. A massive quantity of energy is released from Dalamud, obliterating the tower and the surrounding city, causing heavy casualties.”

 

Encyclopedia Eorzea - The Meteor Project Revisited: "The Meteor Project was soon drafted and the tantalizing prospect of an all-powerful weapon was met with broad approval within the Imperial Court. Mere days after receiving the Emperor’s blessing, nan Garlond would travel to the Garlean city of Bozja to conduct the first attempt to communicate with Dalamud. The immensity of the satellite’s power was indeed confirmed that day, but at a disastrous cost. Nearly five millennia-worth of amassed energy was directed by the moon to the citadel’s makeshift transmission tower. The beam emitted by Dalamud was so intense that not only the tower, but the entire city was evaporated in an instant. Efforts were made by the Imperial Censors to hide the event from public scrutiny, but the vanishing of a major commercial center was too big a secret to suppress. News of the catastrophe quickly spread across Hydaelyn and later became known as the Bozja Incident."

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8 hours ago, Sounsyy said:

Encyclopedia Eorzea - Chronicles of the Sixth Astral Era:
1562 -
 “On the continent of Othard, Grand Minister Midas nan Garlond conducts the first field test of the Meteor Project at the Citadel Bozja. A massive quantity of energy is released from Dalamud, obliterating the tower and the surrounding city, causing heavy casualties.”

 

Ah, that's the part I systematically missed while parsing the lorebook yersterday it seems... Thanks.

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