Why is there constantly stigma with Dragoon?

[mantraofyosuga]

I've just recently been informed that being a dragoon is "special snowflake" "gary stu/mary sue".

 

Is it strange that a character could possibly work with all he had to become said Dragoon? Why is it not strange that there are monks, scholars, white mages, etc, jobs that do not even exist anymore, are running around?

 

I have never once run around with an air of superiority as a Dragoon. In fact, it is never even really mentioned. But for some reason, you're automatically deemed "special snowflake" for something your character suffered to become but is instantly regretful of doing so.

 

I'm not sure how I should word this, I just don't understand why with every miqo'te running around as a Nunh and a million sultansworn and undercover Garleans, that being a Dragoon is such an awful thing.

 

I guess this post is really me complaining, but I would like an answer or opinion.

[Nebbs]

Well I suppose if there is only one and you claim to be THE one, then that probably would be hard to get people to accept. I would suggest playing it as one of many, it makes you special but not unique.

 

RP styles are diverse, and well practised at judging any style that is different as wrong. 

 

The harsh truth is that if you want to RP with others you have to find a common ground to RP on. That means accepting compromise in ideals in return for interaction.

 

So..

1. Understand your style

2. Find others with compatible styles

3. Adjust your RP/Character to support the RP rather than break it

 

Hope that helps?

[Faye]

Well... I'd say "all dragoons are bad" is a generalization that's equally as false as saying "everyone thinks dragoons are bad." A lot of people have some reluctance because, to be honest, in my personal experience I've run into a lot of DRG mary sue's and power players. Dragoons are sort of the ultimate, cliched, cool, super strong badass of the FF franchise, so naturally they're most likely to attract those kind of role-players. That being said, I've also only seen a couple IC WHM's about, only a couple more SCH's, and only a couple more MNK's. Most role-players don't exactly give their character an actual job IC, or at the very least don't blatantly advertise it either IC or even OOC.

 

Dragoon, however, is one of the jobs that's actually more viable to role-play--provided you aren't trying to make your character the Azure Dragoon. Bear in mind, I'm not too familiar with the DRG lore as I've never played one IC or even OOC, but from what I've been told not only do they endure rigorous training but they also follow strict rules about where they can go and when, when and where they can wear their DRG armor, etc. A lot of DRG RPers completely disregard this, so while you say your character "suffered" to become this, a lot of RPers don't really spin it that way when they ignore all the limitations and rules of being a DRG yet still reap all the benefits.

 

Second problem with a lot of DRG role-players I've seen firsthand is the idea both IC and OOC that jumping on things is the best way to kill them. I'm not talking giant dragons, I'm talking smaller and speedier targets like other people... There's a reason that IRL few martial arts and combat styles involve jumping out of the air at people... it leaves you vulnerable and there's really no benefit to outweigh that. There was an IC DRG once who joined my FC for all of an hour until he was told IC that jumping was a silly tactic when fighting other people began to yell at us OOC about that remark that had been made in RP, promptly quit the FC and apparently to this day goes around telling everyone not to RP with us lol. If you want to have your character jump around a lot, and even if you want him to be presumed to be good at it and be a competent fighter, that's fine--but you need to be able to handle criticism on the matter, as many people may not find jumping 20 feet in the air to be a useful or believable fighting tactic.

 

I will say that I have nothing against people who RP dragoons, and that it's dumb to classify an entire group of people based on the actions of a few bad eggs they likely wouldn't even want associated with them. However, for those who are prone to stereotype and judge a group by the worst half of it, there are plenty of questionable dragoons running around for them to base their negative opinions on.

 

But! Maybe I just haven't noticed, but I haven't seen any rampant hatred of dragoon RPers. Or rather, I haven't seen any more hatred for dragoons than I've seen for all the Nunhs and Sultansworn and Garleans and whatnot. So unless it's all just eluded me, I feel like generalizing the mass public as dragoon haters is no better than generalizing dragoons as special snowflakes.

[Yssen]

I've just recently been informed that being a dragoon is "special snowflake" "gary stu/mary sue".

 

Is it strange that a character could possibly work with all he had to become said Dragoon? Why is it not strange that there are monks, scholars, white mages, etc, jobs that do not even exist anymore, are running around?

 

I have never once run around with an air of superiority as a Dragoon. In fact, it is never even really mentioned. But for some reason, you're automatically deemed "special snowflake" for something your character suffered to become but is instantly regretful of doing so.

 

I'm not sure how I should word this, I just don't understand why with every miqo'te running around as a Nunh and a million sultansworn and undercover Garleans, that being a Dragoon is such an awful thing.

 

I guess this post is really me complaining, but I would like an answer or opinion.

 

Just to add to what others have said here, yeah. You are fine. Unless you are trying to be the Azure Dragoon of the plot, you are all good. Anyone telling you that there is only one Dragoon from a lore stand point is wrong. Tell them to go watch that Heavensward trailer again. There are three of them standing there, in AF armor. There are also at least two divisions of them deployed in Coerthas with the rest in reserve in Ishgard itself. The presence of more Dragoons beyond the Azure Dragoon of the Job Plot was a well debated issue before the Heavensward trailer came out. With what that trailer showed us, yeah there are many Dragoons. You are not being a special snowflake if you just want your character to be a Dragoon.

 

As to "why" people have that attitude about DRG? OOCly, blame FFXI there was "lolDRG" going on there for a looooong while, and it has just sorta floated its way over to XIV. Mostly without any real justification that extends beyond "well we did that in XIV." That said, there are bad DRGs out there, but there are also bad MNKs, bad BLMs, and bad everything else. The hold over of "lolDRG" from XI has just brought that to the for front in people's brains, for whatever reason. It also has the perception of being the "Job Everyone wants to play to be cool." Sort of like DRK in XI. Lots of people play one, very few people are good at it. This is again, another holdover perception from XI. Do not let ANYONE dictate to you how you play this game. If you like playing the job, play the job. Be the best DRG you can be. If people are going to be jerks about it, let them be jerks about it. It is YOUR game, and YOUR decision. People giving you stupid amounts of grief because of a holdover opinion from XI are just acting like jerks, and showing you what type of person they really are. Jerks with nothing better to do than give someone a hard time because of what they enjoy in the game.

 

Play how you want to play, and encourage people to give you a chance to show them that it/you are not as bad as their perceptions would have them think. Keep and open mind, and ask for the same from others. All will be well. ^ ^

[K'nahli]

I've just recently been informed that being a dragoon is "special snowflake" "gary stu/mary sue".

 

Is it strange that a character could possibly work with all he had to become said Dragoon? Why is it not strange that there are monks, scholars, white mages, etc, jobs that do not even exist anymore, are running around?

 

I have never once run around with an air of superiority as a Dragoon. In fact, it is never even really mentioned. But for some reason, you're automatically deemed "special snowflake" for something your character suffered to become but is instantly regretful of doing so.

 

I'm not sure how I should word this, I just don't understand why with every miqo'te running around as a Nunh and a million sultansworn and undercover Garleans, that being a Dragoon is such an awful thing.

 

I guess this post is really me complaining, but I would like an answer or opinion.

 

I have never encountered a particular stigma about dragoons that weren't equally held toward other jobs that people lay claim to. Personally I have no real problem with people playing what they want but as I mentioned in another topic not too long ago, it's a little off-putting that people want to play job roles that are meant to be exclusive or limited to very few or worse, "one person in the world/Eorzea" just to make their character sound a little better when in reality the class that builds into that job is perfectly fine and still capable of great and powerful feats. People like to assume that "normal" classes are for your every day Joe and that they need the novelty of a job title to really be that elite kind of warrior.

 

That kind of thing is perfectly fine for RP done in a clique but when you choose job classes like that and want to RP with many new and random people then you really need to ask yourself why the job title is so important to you that you must put up all of these obstacles between you and your RP that only may serve to bother people.

 

 

Dragoon, however, is probably one of those more open jobs but you should really consider the apparent lore around it as Faye suggested. Azure dragoon is the real area that you ought to be cautious of however.

 

 

 

(Also, you'll likely see a LOT of nuhns that aren't even RP'ers but still stick with the naming conventions. Anyways, that's a topic in itself since many people like to treat that situation as something of a privilege more than a duty and as though female, tribal seekers are not beings that have their own decisions to make when it comes to if they want to breed with the particular nuhn and when they are ready to stop being an avid huntress and start being a mother  *shrugs*)

[Crisiet]

I play a dragoon IC. 

 

My character was an Ishgardian Knight trained with a lance. He fought dragons. A dragoon. He is not in any way, shape or form the azure dragoon, nor will he ever be. He doesn't refer to himself as a dragoon because he lost that title a while ago, but he was one once and has that training.

 

Don't let people tell you that playing a dragoon makes you a sue. Playing a dragoon THAT'S THE BEST AT EVERYTHING EVER BECAUSE REASONS LOL is being a sue. But that's like playing any character and job and trying to say you're the best at everything ever. You need balance and you need to adhere to the lore within the universe you're creating that character in. XIV's universe allows you to be a dragoon, with the proper connections and training. 

 

I haven't actually run into any accusations of being a sue or insults for being a DRG IC. I suppose it just depends on the places and people you roleplay with. Everyone has their own idea of how things should be played.

[Kellach Woods]

In gameplay I've seen more trash BLMs than DRGs. I'd even say the DRGs kinks could be worked out with time, whereas the BLMs need to just stop what they're doing and reevaluate their lives.

 

In RP? I've never really encountered anything like that.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

@OP, you might like part of the things discussed in this thread. 

 

"LORE-FRIENDLY" OR NOT JOBS

 

While it certainly became a heated thread (as many end up when Jobs/the Echo/Warrior of Light/Player Housing/[insert trigger owrds here] do), it also had amazing posts like this one quote below.

 

TLDR: Yes, it's fine to play a job, but as others have said, is there a reason to be the job over just being the class? As of this exact moment, SE has only onfirmed two things that are 100% impossible to have multiple jobs for: Azure Dragoon (there can only be one), and White Mage (in the sense that your character has been granted usage of Succor as deemed by the Elementals in the Black Shroud. ...however! SE did confirm there could be other ways of gaining access to Succor, and they could be a little.....evil? Or something)

 

WHY YOU MAKE ME WORK SO HARRRDDDD??

 

 

On topic of OP, I've participated a lot in these discussions, but I don't know why there HAS to be a need to roleplay Jobs over Classes. Jobs come with all these sorts of gray areas and lore-breaking implications. Why not just be a lancer over a dragoon? Why not a gladiator over a paladin (unless you want to play Sultansworn)? Why not pugilist over monk? Other than a very small amount of differences, they're effectively the same.

 

I quote this mainly because not all classes and jobs are "effectively the same." Actually very few of them are as far as lore is concerned. With that in mind, let's head into class vs job lore.

 

To start out, the term "classes" refers to Eorzean specific professions that are commonly used in Eorzea today. "Jobs" on the other hand, (with a few notable exceptions) refers to legendary disciplines of times past. Times past might be 100 years in the case of some, it might be 5000 years in the case of others. However, all of these jobs have made a recent comeback in the 7th Umbral Era. Without further ado:

 

 

Gladiator - Refers to a Coliseum-hired fighter. These people make their living by fighting on the Bloodsands for profit, glory, or to free themselves from bondage. Though the Coliseum is known for teaching the way of the sword, not all Gladiators use a sword. A Gladiator can use any weapon.

 

Circa the year 1562 6AE, the Bloodsands played host to a tournament that would change the fate of the Gladiator's Guild forever. Two friends, Ul'dah's champion, Greinfarr the Great (referred to in 2.0 as The Bronze Bull) and J'moldva the Hellfire Phoenix, champion for the Ala Mhigan refugees seeking asylum within Ul'dah, fought the greatest duel in Coliseum history. Both champions were formerly undefeated by any adversary, and the amount of gil waged on the outcome of the fight was said to be greater than all the gold in the Sultana's coffers. But as the match went on, the crowd was whipped into a violent frenzy. A riot broke out, putting both gladiator and bystander in danger. But just as things were about to go from bad to worse, the two gladiators struck each other down, causing an abrupt end to the violence for fear of who would be the victor. Finally, Greinfarr the Great stood and claimed glory for Ul'dah, in order to save it from being torn apart.

 

Since that day, the Coliseum has never seen the same popularity. So it was that it fell into decline and in order to drum up interest, the Coliseum started importing vicious beasts from Ishgard and other foreign lands for the Gladiators to fight.

 

Paladin - Refers to members of the Royal Guard of the Sultanate. Formed roughly 800 years ago by Jhal Tristam and two other knights, the Sultansworn have protected the throne against all threats. In recent years, to combat the growing threat of the Monetarists' corruption, the Sultansworn have begun teaching their 800-year art to adventurers who swear their allegiance not to the Sultana, but to the Paladin's Oath. These new Paladins are referred to as "Free Paladins."

 

 

Marauder - This term refers to axe-wielders, the famed weapon of pirates in FFXIV lore. Similar to how we see eye-patch/peg-leg = pirate, Eorzeans see axe and think pirate. However, not all marauders are pirates, just as not all people with peg-legs are pirates. Marauders make up a large portion of Limsa Lominsa's navy, and many other marauders go on to do mercenary work abroad.

 

Warrior - Refers to the old art of unlocking the Inner Beast within us all and embracing and harnessing its power. Warriors were once common throughout Eorzea, however, the art fell into disuse after The Autumn War 100 years ago due to a lack of necessity for the art. Now it is believed to only reside within a few villages nestled in the Hellsguardian homeland, Abalathia's Spine. It is said that Warriors of old would attempt to wrestle bears to the ground in order to tame them.

 

 

Lancer - Refers to one who wields polearms. While the Wailing Barracks is known Eorzea-wide for being home to some of the world's greatest lancers, it is not the only place where lancers are common, nor is it the origin of the art. Ala Mhigo, before its fall in 1557 6AE, actually boasted the greatest lancer legions the world had ever seen. A force which, during the Autumn War, was able to battle the combined forces of Gridania, Ishgard, Ul'dah, and Limsa Lominsa effectively.

 

Ishgard is also well known for their history with the lance. Their patron deity, Halone, is represented by three spears. The lance is said to be the traditional weapon of the Templars as well as the famed weapon of Ishgard's champions, The Azure Dragoons.

 

Dragoon - Refers to "The Azure Dragoon," the champion of Ishgard. One Azure Dragoon is chosen by Nidhogg's Eye every generation for the last 1000 years. This person is subjected to the full might of the Dragon King's magic, for it is their destiny to once and for all vanquish Nidhogg and lead Ishgard against the Dravanian Horde. Once the Azure Dragoon is chosen, a ceremonial and functional weapon called the Gae Bolg is crafted using dragon bone. A special set of Drachen Mail is imbued with magic-dampening powers and given to the Dragoon just so that they might feel some reprieve from Nidhogg's influence and won't be driven to madness by dragon magic.

 

This person is not to be confused with an Ishgardian "Dragoon," who is a Knight of Ishgard that proves to the Holy See that they have slain a dragon. This title can be bestowed upon any Knight or Templar and matters not whether they use a spear or sword. Any Player Character can kill a dragon and call themselves a Dragoon, however, you are not officially a Dragoon unless you are Ishgardian. Likewise, you can do what the Player Character does in the DRG Storyline and GRAVEROB THE TOMBS OF DEAD AZURE DRAGOONS and steal their armor and weapon and call yourself a "Dragoon." However, the Holy See of Ishgard does not even recognize the MSQ Player Character as the Azure Dragoon despite being chosen by Nidhogg's Eye because we are not Ishgardian. Go back to Ser Alberic in Coerthas and talk to him. It's quite interesting. He states that never in all Ishgardian history has the Holy See been without an Azure Dragoon to lead them.

 

 

Pugilist - Refers to the debt collectors of the Platinum Mirage. The Platinum Mirage is a Vegas-styled exclusive club for only the most elite of Ul'dahn elite. Like Vegas, if you can't pay your due or you try to cheat the Mirage out of money, the Pugilists will sort you out. Giving rise to their motto: "A closed fist drops no gil."

 

Monk - Refers to those members of the former Order of the Fists of Rhalgr. This Order trained both mind and body in an effort to achieve greatness in the eyes of the Destroyer. However, as their religious and political influence grew greater and greater in Ala Mhigo, the then King of Ala Mhigo, Theodoric, now known as the King of Ruin, began to fear the Fists of Rhalgr, so 1552 6AE, he ordered his lancer legions to surround the Temple of Rhalgr and they slaughtered all within and burned the temple to the ground. Men, women, and children fell to the King of Ruin's madness. Though this secured Theodoric's hold on power, it sewed the seeds for civil unrest throughout Ala Mhigo, eventually resulting in the fall of the city-state to the Garlean Empire.

 

 

Archer - Refers to bow users. These are common enough all over the world. There is, however, a racial distinction made between Elezen archers and Miqo'te archers. Elezen archers are masters of the Longbow, while Miqo'te archers are masters of the Shortbow. Those rangers of the Gods' Quiver are noted as the best in the Shroud, if not the world.

 

Bard - Refers specifically to archers of old who used music to inspire and invigorate their fellow soldiers on the battlefield. The practice fell into disuse roughly 100 years ago during the Autumn War. Since that time, Bards have used their gift more within taverns than on the battlefield.

 

One Bard of note, Gilbert the Godsbow was said to have slain seven Ixali chieftans with a single arrow. Because his love of song was well known, a unique bow harp was crafted for him and he was bestowed the title "Godsbow." Gilbert's Artemis Bow was on display within the Archers' Guild until it was stolen in an Ixali raid on Gridania.

 

 

Thaumaturge - Refers to those practitioners of the Order of Nald'thal. Thaumaturges trace their routes back nearly 3000 years ago to the original Magi of the 5th Astral Era. Modern day Thaumaturges are deeply invested in the study of Life and Death and the cycle of aether in between the two. This duality persists through all Ul'dahn culture and because of this, the Order acts as the religious and political center of Ul'dah. Thaumaturges are the city-state's morticians as well as their lawmakers.

 

Black Mage - Refers to practitioners of Forbidden Magic. In the early years of the 5th Astral Era, an ambitious Magi named Shatotto wished to harness unlimited power, however her own aether was too limited. So she devised a technique to drain the aether of the land around her instead of her own aether. This technique was coined "Black Magic." As its use spread, so too did the destruction it wrought, eventually draining the world of its aether during the War of the Magi at the end of the 5th Astral Era, ushering in the 6th Umbral Era. Because of this, the technique was forgotten to most in the nearly 1600 years since, and forbidden to all those who did still recall its power.

 

 

Conjurer - Refers to persons with the ability to commune and manipulate the aether in Nature. 500 years ago, in the time of Gelmorra, the Hyur and Duskwight in the subterranean city sought to live within the Twelveswood. After a time, the Elementals sent Moogles to teach the Gelmorrans a method for communication between Man and Elemental, and so Conjury was born. There were some gifted with this communion from birth, children able to hear the call of the Elementals, and these young conjurers were called Hearers. Not all conjurers are Hearers, but all Hearers are conjurers. From there, these young conjurers are trained at the Stillglade Fane.

 

White Mage - Refers to users of the Elemental's magic, Succor. This powerful restorative magic was gifted to mankind during the 5th Astral Era to balance the destructive power of Black Magic. For a while, it worked, the White Mages of Amdapor were able to heal the deep wounds caused by the ever more glorified experiments by Black Mages. Until the War of the Magi broke out near the end of the 5th Astral Era. So much aether was drained from Hydaelyn to bare the strain of the Magi that the land died and the Elementals were forced to summon a great flood which wiped the taint of magic from the world. For 1000 years Succor was lost to the world, until 500 years ago, the Elementals gifted their magic once more to the Padjal.

 

 

Arcanist - Refers to practitioners of arcanima. While Melvaan's Gate was only built after the  ascension of Admiral Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn circa 1562 6AE, Arcanists can trace their routes back to the ancient civilization of Nym in the 5th Astral Era. These mages and mathematical geniuses use a mixture of geometry and enchanted inks to manifest incantations of both destructive and restorative processes. They are also capable of drawing their aether to form a Familiar, a property of their magic most likely left over from the ancient Allagan Summoner.

 

Scholar - Refers to a group of phrontists, chirurgeons, and tacticians of ancient Nym, a civilization which thrived during the end of the 5th Astral Era. Similar to Arcanimia, Scholars used geometric shapes and glyphs and the ink in which they were inscribed to invoke power restorative magicks. It is believed that the Nymians were aided by Faeries, magical beings possibly akin to Familiars. However, in the aftermath of the War of the Magi, the Nymians were afflicted with a terrible plague which deformed their inhabitants and struck from them their ability to invoke their former magicks, including the Fae. After the most recent Calamity, ruins of ancient Nym were uncovered in Vylbrand, making the rediscovery of that ancient magic possible.

 

Summoner - Refers to users of a form of magic once used by the ancient Allagans in the 3rd Astral Era over 5000 years ago. The Allagans are believed to have possessed great knowledge of magic and technology that has since been lost to the world. One of these forms of magic was known as Summoning, wherein a mage would invoke the essences of Primals they had defeated in combat. One such Allagan hero, named Wiyu, faced off against the Dark Divinity using the power of the Primals. However, the battle took an ill turn, and Wiyu sacrificed herself to seal the Elder Primal Odin from the world for the next 5000 years.

 

Today, there are very few who are even aware of this practice, let alone capable of wielding its power. However, with the Sons of Saint Coinach delving deeper and deeper into the secrets of the ancient Allagans and the ever growing popularity of Allagan artifacts on the market, knowledge thought lost for over 5000 years has slowly crept back to the surface. As for the summoner in the SMN storyline, he was taught this power by the Ascians, not via a soulstone or having fought a Primal.

 

Going further into this tangent of Summoners having to face the Primals, it is merely stated in the SMN storyline that your proximity to a Primal Summoning and its subsequent death is what awakens the power within you and allows the Player Character to draw forth that essence into an Egi. It does not specifically say that you, the Player Character, must needs be the blade which slays it. One could merely be a close observer to the fight, like Urianger oversees our duel with Ramuh in the MSQ.

 

 

(OMG, can you tell I got tired there towards the end. Guys are killing me.)

 

/Deep breath.

 

ECHO!

 

Let's delve right in. In response to Zyrusticae's link to Anonymoose's summary of the differences between Warriors of Light, Twelvesblades, 1st Wave, and 2nd Wave, I agree with Anonymoose. However, I must also agree that we have no steadfast lore evidence that ALL Warriors of Light have the Echo. While it is possible and perhaps even probable, we cannot say with 100% certainty that they do ALL possess the Echo.

 

Remember, we actually know very little about the Echo. If it is truly a "gift" from Hydaelyn, why do the Ascians have it? How do the Ascians gift it to the Sahagin? Why do the Ascians know so much more about it than we do, if it is truly Hydaelyn's gift? We do not yet have answers to these questions.

 

What we do know about the Echo, is that it seems to prevent the wielder from dying and returning to the Aetherial Plane. However, on the flipside of this, we see many Echo users slain during the 2.0 MSQ "All Good Things" soooooo... We know that for some reason it prevents tempering from Primals, as we are already "claimed" supposedly. We know that in some cases, but not all, it allows a passage from the user's mind into the past of another. It also in certain cases permits the comprehension of any speech, no matter how foreign the tongue. However, this ability, according to the 1.0 MSQ, is limited to only the Player Character to the best of Minfillia's knowledge.

 

Now, a bit of a history lesson. The Scions of the Seventh Dawn is only a 5 year old organization. Prior to the Calamity, the current Scions were part of two entities: The Path of the Twelve and The Circle of Knowing. The Path of the Twelve was an underground organization run by Minfillia whose members were those who possessed the Echo as part of the "1st Wave." 1st Wave referring to people who received the Echo's Blessing between the years 1562 and 1572. (In almost all of the cases of 1st Wave Echo users, lore states that they witnessed a "star shower" which looks oddly similar to the fall of Dalamud.) So in some form or another, they all possessed the Echo.

 

The Circle of Knowing, on the other hand, was a group of scholars from Sharlayan determined to prevent the coming of the Seventh Umbral Era. The Circle of Knowing was lead by the Archon Louisoux. Louisoux was the only one of the Circle EVER referred to as an Archon. Yda, Papalymo, Thancred, Urianger, and Y'shtola are never ever referred to as fellow Archons. Nor, is it ever suggested that they too, possess the Echo. In fact, in 1.0 MSQ "Beckon of the Elementals," when the Player Character pulls Papalymo and Yda into an Echo, they are at a total loss of what the heck just happened to them or who could wield such power as to revisit the past.

 

/dying. I hope... (wheeeeze) I hope this... (huff puff) helps! ^^;

Lore! As requested by OP. All of this information is available via your Class/Job Guildmasters in 2.0, particularly Erik in Ul'dah. OR, you can view the 1.0 Class Storylines, as they are much more informative about class history than anything we were given in 2.0. Grumblegrumble.

[mantraofyosuga]

Thanks guys! This makes me feel a little better now considering. I'm sure when the expansion comes, I'll have to retcon a lot, but right now I'm sticking with the lore as much as I am able.

 

Anyway, I was getting paranoid by my search for threads regarding DRG and getting "I would NEVER play a dragoon IC!". All things considering I'm pretty mindful of being a special snowflake, so it was hard to hear.

[Blue]

As much as I am aware, only the Azure Dragoon is unique. A generic Dragoon is the title given to any knight that has beat a dragon/hunts dragons for a living, or am I wrong?

 

I have a character that dreams to become a dragoon and never really felt like I was a special case.

[Seriphyn]

Well... I'd say "all dragoons are bad" is a generalization that's equally as false as saying "everyone thinks dragoons are bad." A lot of people have some reluctance because, to be honest, in my personal experience I've run into a lot of DRG mary sue's and power players. Dragoons are sort of the ultimate, cliched, cool, super strong badass of the FF franchise, so naturally they're most likely to attract those kind of role-players. That being said, I've also only seen a couple IC WHM's about, only a couple more SCH's, and only a couple more MNK's. Most role-players don't exactly give their character an actual job IC, or at the very least don't blatantly advertise it either IC or even OOC.

 

Dragoon, however, is one of the jobs that's actually more viable to role-play--provided you aren't trying to make your character the Azure Dragoon. Bear in mind, I'm not too familiar with the DRG lore as I've never played one IC or even OOC, but from what I've been told not only do they endure rigorous training but they also follow strict rules about where they can go and when, when and where they can wear their DRG armor, etc. A lot of DRG RPers completely disregard this, so while you say your character "suffered" to become this, a lot of RPers don't really spin it that way when they ignore all the limitations and rules of being a DRG yet still reap all the benefits.

 

Second problem with a lot of DRG role-players I've seen firsthand is the idea both IC and OOC that jumping on things is the best way to kill them. I'm not talking giant dragons, I'm talking smaller and speedier targets like other people... There's a reason that IRL few martial arts and combat styles involve jumping out of the air at people... it leaves you vulnerable and there's really no benefit to outweigh that. There was an IC DRG once who joined my FC for all of an hour until he was told IC that jumping was a silly tactic when fighting other people began to yell at us OOC about that remark that had been made in RP, promptly quit the FC and apparently to this day goes around telling everyone not to RP with us lol. If you want to have your character jump around a lot, and even if you want him to be presumed to be good at it and be a competent fighter, that's fine--but you need to be able to handle criticism on the matter, as many people may not find jumping 20 feet in the air to be a useful or believable fighting tactic.

 

I will say that I have nothing against people who RP dragoons, and that it's dumb to classify an entire group of people based on the actions of a few bad eggs they likely wouldn't even want associated with them. However, for those who are prone to stereotype and judge a group by the worst half of it, there are plenty of questionable dragoons running around for them to base their negative opinions on.

 

But! Maybe I just haven't noticed, but I haven't seen any rampant hatred of dragoon RPers. Or rather, I haven't seen any more hatred for dragoons than I've seen for all the Nunhs and Sultansworn and Garleans and whatnot. So unless it's all just eluded me, I feel like generalizing the mass public as dragoon haters is no better than generalizing dragoons as special snowflakes.

 

This is /thread, imo. Pretty much everything I could think of is covered here. The bad examples of dragoon players want to be all like "yeah I'm Kain!" And will make their character a dragoon at any cost. Miqo'te dragoons that sit around in Ul'dah all day...a Miqo'te dragoon is pretty much identical to seeing a white dude as a fully fledged Japanese samurai. Not impossible but weird.

 

As such, the dragoon roleplayers I like the most are those who actually looked at the freaking game world and lore, and noticed "Oh hey, Ishgard is composed of Midlanders and Elezen", and play those races. Lots of cool Elezen Dragoon characters. 

 

Still though, zzz at the franchise mythology about dragoons. Pogo sticks!

[Yssen]

Random curiosity. What prevents Miqo from being Dragoons exactly?

[Crisiet]

Random curiosity. What prevents Miqo from being Dragoons exactly?

 

As far as we know there are no Ishgardian miqo'te, that's why there aren't any miqo'te dragoons and Ishgard isn't one to give out titles and accolades to outsiders. There are exceptions concerning outsiders as we saw in the latest main scenario stuff but the requirements are still vague.

 

Nothing would prevent a miqo'te from learning techniques if they had the right connections. It's getting those connections that might prove difficult though.

[Kellach Woods]

Still though, zzz at the franchise mythology about dragoons. Pogo sticks!

Bruh, follow FFII mythology even if it contrasts with XIV. No jumping, sensible armor and best Highwind.

 

I didn't read your post fully sorry for the extra ping, but...

 

Miqo'te dragoons that sit around in Ul'dah all day...a Miqo'te dragoon is pretty much identical to seeing a white dude as a fully fledged Japanese samurai. Not impossible but weird.

 

 

Nothing would prevent a miqo'te from learning techniques if they had the right connections. It's getting those connections that might prove difficult though.

Probably gonna be easier in Heavensward to handwave that.

[Gone.]

It's all about how you approach the lore and apply it to your character. None of the jobs are really exclusive in any way, just extensions of the base classes, or in some ways, their root. One just needs a little tact and decent writing skills to make it work in an approachable way for others.

[KitKat]

Second problem with a lot of DRG role-players I've seen firsthand is the idea both IC and OOC that jumping on things is the best way to kill them. I'm not talking giant dragons, I'm talking smaller and speedier targets like other people... There's a reason that IRL few martial arts and combat styles involve jumping out of the air at people... it leaves you vulnerable and there's really no benefit to outweigh that. There was an IC DRG once who joined my FC for all of an hour until he was told IC that jumping was a silly tactic when fighting other people began to yell at us OOC about that remark that had been made in RP, promptly quit the FC and apparently to this day goes around telling everyone not to RP with us lol. If you want to have your character jump around a lot, and even if you want him to be presumed to be good at it and be a competent fighter, that's fine--but you need to be able to handle criticism on the matter, as many people may not find jumping 20 feet in the air to be a useful or believable fighting tactic.

 

This really bothered me. RL logic really should be discarded in a fantasy game. I would have left the FC too if people were trashing my RP like that. How is it a silly tactic when every single one of your Dragoon-given skills is a jump or a jump-enhancer?

 

Jump is the iconic dragoon (dragon slayers) skill in the entire Final Fantasy universe. It shouldn't be discredited like that.

[Oli!]

Second problem with a lot of DRG role-players I've seen firsthand is the idea both IC and OOC that jumping on things is the best way to kill them. I'm not talking giant dragons, I'm talking smaller and speedier targets like other people... There's a reason that IRL few martial arts and combat styles involve jumping out of the air at people... it leaves you vulnerable and there's really no benefit to outweigh that. There was an IC DRG once who joined my FC for all of an hour until he was told IC that jumping was a silly tactic when fighting other people began to yell at us OOC about that remark that had been made in RP, promptly quit the FC and apparently to this day goes around telling everyone not to RP with us lol. If you want to have your character jump around a lot, and even if you want him to be presumed to be good at it and be a competent fighter, that's fine--but you need to be able to handle criticism on the matter, as many people may not find jumping 20 feet in the air to be a useful or believable fighting tactic.

 

This really bothered me. RL logic really should be discarded in a fantasy game. I would have left the FC too if people were trashing my RP like that. How is it a silly tactic when every single one of your Dragoon-given skills is a jump or a jump-enhancer?

 

Jump is the iconic dragoon (dragon slayers) skill in the entire Final Fantasy universe. It shouldn't be discredited like that.

 

 

I would personally chalk this up to a fundamental difference in RP preferences and style. Some people are okay with explaining things with Magic or just taking things as they are, while others would rather explain things with a little more detail using real-world contexts or build upon them in a similar format.

 

Personally I'm a person that enjoys the second camp, but there's nothing particularly wrong with either. Some people prefer to go with what the game gives them, while others take things into their own hands. While there are situations in which the two can (and will) clash, that's part of the reason why it helps to surround yourself with people who think the same way about RP that you do.

[111]

Yeah every bit of FFXIV lore says that dragoons are super good at killing dragons. When they jump they are basically anti-dragon guided missiles. Even their armor and weapon is covered in ailerons to help them zero in on a target.

 

The heavensward trailer in particular indicates that there are a lot of dragoons, and they are the sharpest spear in Ishgard's arsenal against the dravanian threat.

 

Now, I would agree that playing a master dragoon, able to do all those things, could get a little hairy for some RPers. However complaining about your average dragoon being able to jump dozens of meters in the air is silly. You might as well complain about thaumaterges making fire from their hands, or conjurers healing wounds.

 

It's a fantasy game. Some adventurers can take hits from a primal, others can punch through steel, or summon ice and lightning. In comparison, being able to jump really high and land accurately on a target seems pretty pedestrian.

[Oli!]

Yeah every bit of FFXIV lore says that dragoons are super good at killing dragons. When they jump they are basically anti-dragon guided missiles. Even their armor and weapon is covered in ailerons to help them zero in on a target.

 

The heavensward trailer in particular indicates that there are a lot of dragoons, and they are the sharpest spear in Ishgard's arsenal against the dravanian threat.

 

Now, I would agree that playing a master dragoon, able to do all those things, could get a little hairy for some RPers. However complaining about your average dragoon being able to jump dozens of meters in the air is silly. You might as well complain about thaumaterges making fire from their hands, or conjurers healing wounds.

 

It's a fantasy game. Some adventurers can take hits from a primal, others can punch through steel, or summon ice and lightning. In comparison, being able to jump really high and land accurately on a target seems pretty pedestrian.

 

I think the point that the person that brought this up was making was not that it was silly to say that Dragoons can jump, but that jumping fifty feet in the air might not be the best tactic when fighting things that are smaller, faster, and don't fly.

[ArmachiA]

I think Faye pretty much nailed it with the whole people tend to flock to the Dragoon class who want to be super overpowered and AMAZING AT ALL FIGHTING. "I can take 10 people at a time!" types.

That doesn't mean all Dragoon players are Mary Sues, it's just Mary Sues are more prone to go there.

 

Take heart, Dragoon players! This will stop once Dark Knight is implemented

[Aya]

I think Faye pretty much nailed it with the whole people tend to flock to the Dragoon class who want to be super overpowered and AMAZING AT ALL FIGHTING. "I can take 10 people at a time!" types.

That doesn't mean all Dragoon players are Mary Sues, it's just Mary Sues are more prone to go there.

 

Take heart, Dragoon players! This will stop once Dark Knight is implemented

:(

[Crisiet]

I think Faye pretty much nailed it with the whole people tend to flock to the Dragoon class who want to be super overpowered and AMAZING AT ALL FIGHTING. "I can take 10 people at a time!" types.

That doesn't mean all Dragoon players are Mary Sues, it's just Mary Sues are more prone to go there.

 

Take heart, Dragoon players! This will stop once Dark Knight is implemented

 

I laughed because it's true.

[Warren Castille]

Yeah every bit of FFXIV lore says that dragoons are super good at killing dragons. When they jump they are basically anti-dragon guided missiles. Even their armor and weapon is covered in ailerons to help them zero in on a target.

 

The heavensward trailer in particular indicates that there are a lot of dragoons, and they are the sharpest spear in Ishgard's arsenal against the dravanian threat.

 

Now, I would agree that playing a master dragoon, able to do all those things, could get a little hairy for some RPers. However complaining about your average dragoon being able to jump dozens of meters in the air is silly. You might as well complain about thaumaterges making fire from their hands, or conjurers healing wounds.

 

It's a fantasy game. Some adventurers can take hits from a primal, others can punch through steel, or summon ice and lightning. In comparison, being able to jump really high and land accurately on a target seems pretty pedestrian.

 

One has to ask whether the title makes the dragonslayer. You only becomes a "dragoon" by killing a dragon. The means of how you manage that aren't dictated by the lore, we just tend to see them wielding spears.

 

The only "issue" I've got with people roleplaying dragoons is how long jump would take to resolve. There's no propulsion beyond your feet, so if you are leaping fifty feet into the air, it does seem a bit ridiculous that several seconds would have to pass by before someone could resolve the action, not to mention that it becomes tantamount to guided flight if you're able to maneuver and strike a moving, smaller target. Leaping headlong onto a dragon's shoulder and skewering it, a la Cid in Advent Children? That's right on target (hee). But having a hypothetical dragoon leap dozens of feet into the sky and landing several seconds later onto a lalafell rogue who is aware of the attack pushes realms of believability.

 

Plus you then fall into the issue of "well why don't they just jump all the time and become invincible?" issue, because I've never seen anyone who RPs with combat abilities RP cooldowns.

 

Of course, I'm weighing worst-case scenarios here. I've never run into issues with anyone using a lance. I know Lancers/Dragoons jumping is an FF trope and all, but it still just seems wrong to me for folks to be able to just casually spring from the ground to rooftop heights as a free move action equivalent. Why would anyone ever walk anywhere again?

[Oli!]

I think Faye pretty much nailed it with the whole people tend to flock to the Dragoon class who want to be super overpowered and AMAZING AT ALL FIGHTING. "I can take 10 people at a time!" types.

That doesn't mean all Dragoon players are Mary Sues, it's just Mary Sues are more prone to go there.

 

Take heart, Dragoon players! This will stop once Dark Knight is implemented

 

 

As someone who wants to make their Roegadyn into a Dark Knight THIS MAKES ME INFINITELY SAD.

[Berrod Armstrong]

Yeah every bit of FFXIV lore says that dragoons are super good at killing dragons. When they jump they are basically anti-dragon guided missiles. Even their armor and weapon is covered in ailerons to help them zero in on a target.

 

The heavensward trailer in particular indicates that there are a lot of dragoons, and they are the sharpest spear in Ishgard's arsenal against the dravanian threat.

 

Now, I would agree that playing a master dragoon, able to do all those things, could get a little hairy for some RPers. However complaining about your average dragoon being able to jump dozens of meters in the air is silly. You might as well complain about thaumaterges making fire from their hands, or conjurers healing wounds.

 

It's a fantasy game. Some adventurers can take hits from a primal, others can punch through steel, or summon ice and lightning. In comparison, being able to jump really high and land accurately on a target seems pretty pedestrian.

 

One has to ask whether the title makes the dragonslayer. You only becomes a "dragoon" by killing a dragon. The means of how you manage that aren't dictated by the lore, we just tend to see them wielding spears.

 

The only "issue" I've got with people roleplaying dragoons is how long jump would take to resolve. There's no propulsion beyond your feet, so if you are leaping fifty feet into the air, it does seem a bit ridiculous that several seconds would have to pass by before someone could resolve the action, not to mention that it becomes tantamount to guided flight if you're able to maneuver and strike a moving, smaller target. Leaping headlong onto a dragon's shoulder and skewering it, a la Cid in Advent Children? That's right on target (hee). But having a hypothetical dragoon leap dozens of feet into the sky and landing several seconds later onto a lalafell rogue who is aware of the attack pushes realms of believability.

 

Plus you then fall into the issue of "well why don't they just jump all the time and become invincible?" issue, because I've never seen anyone who RPs with combat abilities RP cooldowns.

 

Of course, I'm weighing worst-case scenarios here. I've never run into issues with anyone using a lance. I know Lancers/Dragoons jumping is an FF trope and all, but it still just seems wrong to me for folks to be able to just casually spring from the ground to rooftop heights as a free move action equivalent. Why would anyone ever walk anywhere again?

Ooh! 

 

One of my 2,837,183,163,891,361,731 characters is a dragoon in training -- so I had to really sit and work out how the jumping aspect of his combat was going to work out. 

 

At first there was the actual training, where I had to bullshit stuff about using aether to augment the legs, push off, blah blah -- but that stuff is easily explained in a world where aether can be a convenient go to answer. HOWEVER -- having him actually LEARN to do it was a fun thing to play off, because he was terrible at first. His first attempts at jumping were so bad, he just hopped and fell flat on his face. He'd endure horrible leg day pains following each session -- the process was just overall exhausting.

 

Eventually he learned to take off into a jump -- but good lord did his aim need work. His first few jumps involved him haplessly launching himself into trees, off of seaside cliffs and into second story inn windows (he did confirm that the baker was cheating on his wife...). It was a very slow process, but now he's learned to do about two controlled jumps in a row. After that, it takes him a bit of time to recover and gather the strength to do more. Even so, he prefers to use the technique against aerial targets because jumping toward something on the ground has never worked out for him. He's just not skilled enough. 

 

I dunno, I enjoy playing off that 'learning from scratch' thing -- and in cases where I play a character possessing the skill, I either find a way to limit his use of it to a sphere within reason, or provide it with enough openings/weaknesses/complications to disallow it from becoming something super duper powerful that can beat everything/one/babbu/dargon.

 

...that being said, I haven't seen MUCH complaining about dragoons on the whole in RP. In PvE there's the whole bad dragoon/dead dragoon thing, I guess...but the only gripes I've seen about PC ones have been very much isolated.