Married IC issues.

[Nero]

Brief reminder to keep the discussion civil and on-topic. You can disagree with someone without derision.

[Arrelaine]

I'm going to echo what others have said: You have no obligation to stick around with someone who is causing you OOC stress and trying to guilt-trip you OOC. Does the possibility exist that they don't know what they're doing? Yes, but it's not your responsibility to teach them or to help them if you don't want to. It's a stronger possibility they know what they're doing. If it's too much emotional baggage to deal with, tell them 'listen, this is too much, I'm out'.

 

Yes, I've done the same with two other RP partners (I don't have many, for this very reason). They all knew I had a husband and I'm not interested in any OOC romance or anything more than friendship. The very -moment- the act clingy or express anything other than basic friendly intentions, I drop them and tell them goodbye. I don't play those games, been through that, been through too much in my life to let some person on the internet try to ruin my happiness OOC.

 

If you feel it's worth it, and they'll change, then by all means attempt to rectify the situation. Whether or not it works completely depends on the other person. If they don't start changing, then for your own sake you need to drop them. If you stay in such a relationship without change, you're falling into a perpetual victimhood hole with this person you'll never be able to climb out of. Not without damage.

 

The only situation you have to worry about is you. The only person who can control their way out is you. The only person who can control your feelings, your actions is you. And it goes the same for the other person. You are not responsible for their actions, their feelings or their words. You have to make them take responsibility for what they're doing, whether or not it's 'listen, you need to stop what you're doing, it's wrong; I'm willing to help you change' or 'listen, what you're doing is wrong and I'm out'.

 

For those that don't understand the definition of obligation, here it is. There is a very clear, hard difference between obligation and desire. I have no obligation to help homeless stray dogs find homes, but I have a desire to do so. I have no obligation to the OP to give them advice, but I desire to do so.

 

'obligation

[ob-li-gey-shuh n]

noun

1.

something by which a person is bound or obliged to do certain things, and which arises out of a sense of duty or results from custom, law, etc.

2.

something that is done or is to be done for such reasons:

to fulfill one's obligations.

3.

a binding promise, contract, sense of duty, etc.

4.

the act of binding or obliging oneself by a promise, contract, etc.

5.

Law.

 

an agreement enforceable by law, originally applied to promises under seal.

a document containing such an agreement.

a bond containing a penalty, with a condition annexed for payment of money, performance of covenants, etc.

 

6.

any bond, note, bill, certificate, or the like, as of a government or a corporation, serving as evidence of indebtedness.

7.

an indebtedness or amount of indebtedness.'

[Warren Castille]

Irony: When people who use "No one is obligated to help someone" as an argument point are doing so in a thread where they are trying to help someone.

 

I'm one of them who did so. I posted because I thought the advice might help. There is a small difference between unsolicited advice ("You should do this because I said so") and solicited advice ("You asked, so here's what I think.")

 

Personal interests and biases and opinions between two people can muck up any delicate social operation: No one wants to make their friends feel wrong or down or bad and a lot of us would rather just endure the bad while riding the highs. The tricky part comes when the bad is potentially signs of something actually being wrong or needing to be addressed and we permit that behavior to not make a ruckus.

 

It's presuming, but OP's reports have shown that the OOC relationship is already pretty terse. If someone's logging out in a fit while throwing off PA comments or putting you under a lamp when you take a night off, that already sets the fuse on the powderkeg of communicating efficiently.

[S'imba]

Personal safety always comes first, evenot if you risk a lot to save a lot. If you're in a situation you're actively being hurt you get out. Sure if you haven't talked to them about it, then it might be worth talking to them. But if they fall back into old habits then it's best to leave. If you're telling yourself that you're changing them it's probably a chance that it's abusive. 

 

In order to help someone like that, it needs to be done by someone who doesn't have the emotional attachments those people feed off of. Obviously they don't see what they are doing is wrong. It's pretty rare that any abuser believes what they are doing is wrong. Which means there's a good chance they won't change if you try and fix it. 

 

Basically if you haven't talked to them and they refuse to see the problem or fall back into old habits tell them that you're done and move on don't even let them come crawling back.

[Kage]

In Character, my character loves her partner. However just as ooc I feel smothered ic she also feels smothered. What I mean is, ic I am a treasure hunter I enjoy going to the quicksand I have friends there and I just enjoy having a good time and a laugh there. IC my partner had a bad experience there so she rarely goes there, and only does come when I have gone there or am missing from my room. IC my partner then comes along and somewhat forces me to leave the place because she feels uncomfortable being there. IC I would say I am fine in Ul'dah, that I have experience living there and being in a place like that, but that doesnt stop them from coming and forcing me back.

 

Now I dont mind spending time with them, IC or OOC but I am restricted from seeing any other people or friends, or making new friends.

 

OOC, the often complain how they dont like the place. So the avoid it, but I am fine with going there and have told them that I am fine going there ic or ooc.

 

Are all your issues coming from when you want to visit the Quicksand and the other doesn't want to go there? It reads as if the two of you aren't able to spend a lot of time together RPing (different time zones, you don't spend too long in one game). Does the person tell you to spend most of your time together or is it stemming from how you like to spend time in Quicksand while the other doesn't?

 

If the partner is not actually telling you that you can't spend time with them there may be one issue and that it is possible that your IC married partner was wanting for an RP partner who they can develop long time RP. If you have limited time together and you spend half of it in a place that the other does not like to go, it will cause marriage issues. Marriage counseling may fix it (compromise on where you meet adventurers, Drowning Wench is another hub) or you have a case where you genuinely need to get out.

[Valence]

You should all just wait for the OP to have actually talked with their other half before going on crazy on speculation like that. Once you get proven that the other half is either 1) misguided/misunderstood or 2) a douche, the answer is pretty easy and clear cut and I think everyone will agree on it.

[Snowflakehusky]

Oh dear.

 

it really is very simple, and not so simple. The irony of a human heart, no?

 

While it is clear you do not wish to hurt your rp partner/ friend/ IC spouse, it is also evident you feel hounded, stalked, and oppressed, aka creeped out.

 

Should an honest talk with your friend prove unsuccessful[ and I get the feeling it will. Call it a hunch], I would suggest calling it a day, and ending the entire thing.

 

Despite how much fun it is, how it draws us in, at the  end of the day[ forgive the cliche], FFiv is a -game-. You are playing a game, meant to be fun. And you are not having fun- quite the contrary. 

 

isn't life already hard enough?

[[hugs my friend]]

[Arrelaine]

You should all just wait for the OP to have actually talked with their other half before going on crazy on speculation like that. Once you get proven that the other half is either 1) misguided/misunderstood or 2) a douche, the answer is pretty easy and clear cut and I think everyone will agree on it.

The OP has already said they feel the need to hide or go into offline mode to avoid them. It's not crazy speculation. It's not okay for someone else to make you feel that way, misguided or no.

[Nebbs]

You should all just wait for the OP to have actually talked with their other half before going on crazy on speculation like that. Once you get proven that the other half is either 1) misguided/misunderstood or 2) a douche, the answer is pretty easy and clear cut and I think everyone will agree on it.

^ Hussar!

[Edvyn]

When the intention of someone appears to be to control others, I do not believe that this intention can be readily interpreted as good for anyone but the person taking control - even if the person believes they are doing good, this is irrelevant. So do most abusers.

[Valence]

You should all just wait for the OP to have actually talked with their other half before going on crazy on speculation like that. Once you get proven that the other half is either 1) misguided/misunderstood or 2) a douche, the answer is pretty easy and clear cut and I think everyone will agree on it.

The OP has already said they feel the need to hide or go into offline mode to avoid them. It's not crazy speculation. It's not okay for someone else to make you feel that way, misguided or no.

 

It's not so much speculation over if it's okay to make someone feel that way or not, but speculation over the result of the discussion the OP and their friend should be having...

 

I don't think anyone argued against the fact that it's not okay.

[Kimikimi]

Lol things seem to be getting out of hand here, I have since spoken to my partner after everything. I am currently taking a break. Our IC relationship will continue but we are speaking to each other more about how we feel about certain things and such. I don't mind the speculation on my partner, but I am still friends with them. Finally thanks for all the support, depending out how things work out in the future I may break up or find a way to work through it.

[Maril]

/modhat on

This thread has been cleaned. Please remember to keep a responsible tone! 

If you have concerns about how a thread is evolving, please contact a moderator or use the "Report post" function. 

 

/modhat off.

[Alothia]

Lol things seem to be getting out of hand here, I have since spoken to my partner after everything. I am currently taking a break. Our IC relationship will continue but we are speaking to each other more about how we feel about certain things and such. I don't mind the speculation on my partner, but I am still friends with them. Finally thanks for all the support, depending out how things work out in the future I may break up or find a way to work through it.

 

I'm glad that things have seemed to work out. Breaks are great for re-centering yourself in RP. I hope that things stay on this positive trajectory.

 

If things don't seem to get better, it may be time to re-evaluate your friendship and the IC relationship. While it doesn't seem per se that this is headed into an abusive direction, sometimes those things creep up on you in game, and hit you out of nowhere. I've been there and done that before, and it's not a good place to be.

 

Just know that whatever you choose to do, that you have a support network of people who are willing to talk to you and hear your side of things. People who may have been there, and who can offer advice, if you feel that you need it. Looks like you probably won't, but if you do, know it's there. 

 

[kamikrazy]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

[ArmachiA]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

 

That's true of a lot of romance RP, it's fascinating on a social research level. The level at which some people get entangled in it is crazy.

[Branson Thorne]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

The level at which some people get entangled in it is crazy.

Is it though? I do not mean to insinuate that it is appropriate behavior to get caught up in an IC romance with OOC feelings. But when it all boils down to it, you are dealing with basic human emotions.

 

I do not condone such actions, but to me I find it understandable if someone is unable to distinguish between the two. Such as some people are unable to maintain the concept of "just friends" while others do not and want something more. The same situation between OOC/IC romance and relations.

 

It's just that some people can separate the two and see clear lines between them, while another person may not. And like I said, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand.

[LiadansWhisper]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

The level at which some people get entangled in it is crazy.

Is it though? I do not mean to insinuate that it is appropriate behavior to get caught up in an IC romance with OOC feelings. But when it all boils down to it, you are dealing with basic human emotions.

 

I do not condone such actions, but to me I find it understandable if someone is unable to distinguish between the two. Such as some people are unable to maintain the concept of "just friends" while others do not and want something more. The same situation between OOC/IC romance and relations.

 

It's just that some people can separate the two and see clear lines between them, while another person may not. And like I said, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand.

 

I started out playing White Wolf's World of Darkness setting, and they always had various disclaimers in each book. They varied as to content, but were all very clear about this one point:

 

If reality and fantasy are starting to mix, it's time to put the books down, back away, and spend quality time in the real world.

 

Losing your hold on the boundary between real life and fantasy is bad . Actually, it's worse than bad, it's very, very dangerous. I'm not willing to expose myself to the inherent danger presented by someone who cannot differentiate between pretend fun times games and reality. That's the textbook definition of a psychosis.

[111]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

The level at which some people get entangled in it is crazy.

Is it though? I do not mean to insinuate that it is appropriate behavior to get caught up in an IC romance with OOC feelings. But when it all boils down to it, you are dealing with basic human emotions.

 

I do not condone such actions, but to me I find it understandable if someone is unable to distinguish between the two. Such as some people are unable to maintain the concept of "just friends" while others do not and want something more. The same situation between OOC/IC romance and relations.

 

It's just that some people can separate the two and see clear lines between them, while another person may not. And like I said, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand.

 

I started out playing White Wolf's World of Darkness setting, and they always had various disclaimers in each book. They varied as to content, but were all very clear about this one point:

 

If reality and fantasy are starting to mix, it's time to put the books down, back away, and spend quality time in the real world.

 

Losing your hold on the boundary between real life and fantasy is bad . Actually, it's worse than bad, it's very, very dangerous. I'm not willing to expose myself to the inherent danger presented by someone who cannot differentiate between pretend fun times games and reality.  That's the textbook definition of a psychosis.

 

The more I RP the more realistic Mazes and Monsters seems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters

 

I've had some bleed moments myself, and it never ends well. At the end of them though it's like "Oh yeah it's just a game", though it's hard to remember that when you're neck deep in drama.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

In my unsolicited opinion, there's a difference between empathy and boundary. Boundary is obviously incredibly important to maintain - that which is real and that which is not real. Empathy, though, is human. When we watch movies or read books, we often find ourselves feeling empathy for the characters. Sometimes the warm fuzzies that a pair who are being romantic are feeling are easy for us to sit and smile about and feel a sense of our own warmth over, just in the same way that we can react as an audience by our own tears during a time of sorrow for the characters in the movie or book, and we can gasp in surprise alongside them, etc, etc.

 

But that's where the boundary comes in. It's normal to feel alongside your characters, but the line between the fiction and the empathy reaction, versus "these are my actual feelings", needs to be remembered.

[desmond28]

Lol things seem to be getting out of hand here, I have since spoken to my partner after everything. I am currently taking a break. Our IC relationship will continue but we are speaking to each other more about how we feel about certain things and such. I don't mind the speculation on my partner, but I am still friends with them. Finally thanks for all the support, depending out how things work out in the future I may break up or find a way to work through it.

 

 

This is a very responsible decision. I applaud you!

[LiadansWhisper]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

The level at which some people get entangled in it is crazy.

Is it though? I do not mean to insinuate that it is appropriate behavior to get caught up in an IC romance with OOC feelings. But when it all boils down to it, you are dealing with basic human emotions.

 

I do not condone such actions, but to me I find it understandable if someone is unable to distinguish between the two. Such as some people are unable to maintain the concept of "just friends" while others do not and want something more. The same situation between OOC/IC romance and relations.

 

It's just that some people can separate the two and see clear lines between them, while another person may not. And like I said, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand.

 

I started out playing White Wolf's World of Darkness setting, and they always had various disclaimers in each book. They varied as to content, but were all very clear about this one point:

 

If reality and fantasy are starting to mix, it's time to put the books down, back away, and spend quality time in the real world.

 

Losing your hold on the boundary between real life and fantasy is bad . Actually, it's worse than bad, it's very, very dangerous. I'm not willing to expose myself to the inherent danger presented by someone who cannot differentiate between pretend fun times games and reality.  That's the textbook definition of a psychosis.

 

The more I RP the more realistic Mazes and Monsters seems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazes_and_Monsters

 

I've had some bleed moments myself, and it never ends well. At the end of them though it's like "Oh yeah it's just a game", though it's hard to remember that when you're neck deep in drama.

 

Some LARP groups have what's called a "debriefing" after the game to help address the issue of bleed. A lot of groups also have "afters," where all the players go out to Dennys or Waffle House after the game to reinforce those OOC bonds. That also helps pull people back.

 

I have yet to see a similar solution for online RP, tho. It may be that the digital nature of the medium simply makes it harder to control bleed and re-establish friendship bonds between players.

[FreelanceWizard]

Some LARP groups have what's called a "debriefing" after the game to help address the issue of bleed. A lot of groups also have "afters," where all the players go out to Dennys or Waffle House after the game to reinforce those OOC bonds. That also helps pull people back.

 

As someone who plays in a healthy and exceedingly political LARP, I can say with absolute certainty that the post-game, late night dinner around a table with your fellow players is a really great way to keep IC ugliness from turning into OOC ugliness. No matter how strong your IC/OOC boundaries are, a very intense LARP can weigh on you.

 

In online RP, one thing I've found that helps is having a shared OOC channel where everyone's active and chatty. Being able to discuss things openly in a friendly way -- and yes, this means potentially talking about your character's inner life -- seems to help set people at ease.

[Nebbs]

"Debriefing" is not just an RP thing it is useful in any number of things where your attention is focused/blinkered. It is a way to reflect and review things.

 

I suppose the "special" aspect of MMO-RP is it is virtual, so there is no OOC feedback when you are immersed in character (body language, sighs, disinterest, etc..). You have absolutely no view on the other people's intent, feelings etc..

 

The important point being, don't assume you know and instead ask/chat/talk OOC if there is some element that you feel needs it. Just a simple, "How was the RP for you?" will switch it to OOC.

 

Not always necessary as I personally prefer just IC and see where it goes with the characters. Any problems or clarification though and I ask OOC.

 

This is not really about the right and wrong way to RP but more how to avoid issues, be resilient and respect those you are RPing with.

[ArmachiA]

This entire topic is fascinating from a social research potential perspective

The level at which some people get entangled in it is crazy.

Is it though? I do not mean to insinuate that it is appropriate behavior to get caught up in an IC romance with OOC feelings. But when it all boils down to it, you are dealing with basic human emotions.

 

I do not condone such actions, but to me I find it understandable if someone is unable to distinguish between the two. Such as some people are unable to maintain the concept of "just friends" while others do not and want something more. The same situation between OOC/IC romance and relations.

 

It's just that some people can separate the two and see clear lines between them, while another person may not. And like I said, I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand.

 

Absolutely it's crazy. I've seen FC's die over it, friendships get bulldozed over because of it, and wars start over it. RP romance is a dangerous road to tread and I feel like most people take it far too lightly. I understand the allure of RP romance, but many people don't understand the dangers.