discussion Your thoughts on jump potions?

[Parth Makeo]

http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=17831&pid=293283#pid293283

JUMP POTION INFO FINALIZED!

 

ALTERNATIVE TO JUMP POTION IS REVEALED: http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=17831&pid=290493#pid290493

 

Halfway marker: http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthread.php?tid=17831&pid=278554#pid278554

Read that for info

 

So I've noticed a lot of (justified) hate over the idea of jump potions for all regions. The idea of buying levels to skip the mundane and dare I say...most boring part of Final Fantasy. I for one will most likely buy them.

 

I want to hear from the more active users about this idea. Do you embrace it? Ignore it? Quit the game over it? Feel cheated for hours put into grinding? Middle of the road?

I'm sure some of you have some words.

 

Update 1: So far the replies are indeed in some agreement or middle ground. I am so glad this community is really calm and thoughtful about all possibilities :3 And if we somehow get more information from the Fanfest in Japan about this, do feel free to mention it.

 

Update 2: So a few points being brought up in this thread are as followed...and my opinions on these for once.

 

- Not everyone reads/watches Dialogue/Cinematics and some just want to get to endgame.

This is true. My first time leveling through 2.0 back when it first launch was all about reading and watching the text...and then the patch content came and by 2.2 I was skipping all the filler cinematics and saying 'LET ME FIGHT LEVIATHAN ALREADY GODDAMMIT!' which is kind of bad.

In today's internet, information about the story is widely digestible in smaller formats for any RPer looking to get into it and frankly, not everyone can remember every little detail without some googling. 

So the ease of technology is partial to blame (Even now the Lorebook doesn't seem like a good purchase with people sharing images online...unless you are like me and most RPers who want a physical thing to read offline)

 

- Jump Potions would bring more bad than good. 

The Jump potions atm in China get players to level 50 which is 10 levels below the current cap and skips over all but Heavensward xpac content. With seeing how the level 90/100 boost worked in world of warcraft, i can say it will only do harm if it came out about a few months before the next xpac and the boost got people to level 60 and skipped ALL of the Heavensward storyquests for them. That is a crime and shame when there is time to do it.

 

So it will bring more people in to play (even if frustrations will arise of occasional 'WTF DO I DO' people.) and read guides. Fun fact too, one of my current mythic raiders in wow started in Warlords...as a boosted character. He's a damn good hunter asking questions and getting a rotation down. It's a rare sight but those players DO exist.

 

- Skipping levels kills the experience/charm/story of the MMO.

And not being able to play with your friends can make or break your MMO experience. Face it. Leveling is an outdated model the moment expansions are introduced to a video game. Vanilla wow for instance had 60 levels and two large zones at release. By Burning Crusade...those zones were EMPTY (say for occasional rep grinders if bored or gathering those mats for vanilla potions and such) and everyone was in Shattarath more than anything. As expansions continue, those zones become outdated and left barren.

 

Yes, I am in the boat that your first time through you SHOULD level through the content from scratch on a toon...but in FF14's case as others pointed out, you have to wallow through hours of meaningless filler from 2.0 era that had to tie you over until the next big patch that introduced maybe another turn of Coils, another level of Crystal tower and 2-3 new dungeons.

 

Solutions are introduced and the Khole book was a good solution (even if i see it as a lotto ticket ) but it will never fix the problem of that initial start.

 

I know i said i wouldn't put my opinions but I felt like breaking it for you guys. After all, I'm the other mmo player with RP in FF14. So i have felt a lot of that initial bad wave back in Mists of Pandaria.

 

Thank you for the continuation of opinions and sharing your thoughts to your fellow FF14 players and RPers. I love how Civil you guys are

[GhostlyMaiden]

I like the idea of Jump potions; however, I think there should be limitations on when someone can use it. For an example, someone can only obtain a jump potion if they have a character with a job already at 60. This means if you're hoping to make an alt, you can just purchase the potion and get much of the painful grinding out of the way.

 

The only issue I see from this is someone who buys the potion for a job they have no idea how to play and won't take the time to actually figure it out and going into these dungeons and making things more painful to get through than they should be.

[Gegenji]

I think the main issue about jump potions in FFXIV is... well... the plot is very heavily story-oriented. And locked behind the quests. So, would jump potions allow you to bypass all the gates? Such as, for example, Ishgard being locked behind the MSQ? If not, you're getting a bunch of levels to basically still be forced to plow your way through the dungeons.

 

On the other hand, for alts that I use mainly for RP and the like, the idea of being able to get them to the levels needed to make full use of the wide range of outfits and glamours... it's quite appealing. Especially for those who might be here solely for the RP and the dress-up and less the PvE side of things.

 

Ultimately, I think I'd need more information on these things before I could fully pass judgement. Like, does it make you max level in EVERYTHING? Or is it one class/job per potion? I'd assume the latter, of course, but you never know given the leveling system in FFXIV. Do you have to use it at creation, or is it something you can use on a character that is already existent? There's a lot of questions to be answered.

[Kilieit]

Assuming they go ahead with them, then I'mma use one. Mostly for the story-skipping component.

 

I've basically resigned myself to never getting any of my alts through the story because it takes so damn long and has no rewards I particularly care about (everything I want unlocks at 50...), so especially if you get a free jump potion with the expac WoW style, then you can bet I'll be shoving it on my currently-level-30 Ala Mhigan boy.

 

Maybe it's because I'm coming from WoW and have seen first-hand already how cash level boosts unequivocally did not ~ruin the game~. Except maybe for RMT folk who want to engage in the illegal activity of selling max-lvl characters for cash, or for the super hardcore people I have no contact with because they'd rather call me names than have a civil conversation... neither of whom are groups I particularly care for. But I really don't understand the panic/scaremongering.

 

Like... y'all... you can already get to 60 without learning to play your class with PotD. There will always be people who don't want to learn. Jump potions won't make them any better or worse.

[Virella]

I'd sooner have an option to skill 'irrelevant' dumb MSQ quests. I don't care about anything up to 2.4/2.5 for the most part. I wish we could indeed get some item just to skip all those quests and go into Ishgard asap we hit 50. That would be my preference. An option for people who level alts to just skip all that nonsense. I don't care about the XP loss.

 

Surely, it makes missing out on the storyline a bit, and I do think 'new players' shouldn't be granted this option. But I feel this game could use some more alt friendliness in that regard. However, I do think thinning out those dumb MSQ quests who add little to nothing to the story ought to be removed. Even for people who didn't have to endure it to begin with. It doesn't set a good example for the game to begin with. We all know how tedious it was, even doing it for the first time. But that's my personal opinion.

 

As for legit jumping potions? As an RPer? AWESOME. As someone who likes to do PvE from time to time? Less awesome. You will get a bunch of people just popping the potion, not having a clue what to do with their class. While this is fine for roleplay, I don't like dumb folk in my dungeons. Granted, those same people would probably have done the same if they had to level from the start that class, seeming some just fate grinded their characters up, especially back in the days, and still feel entitled to not learn their class and just be carried, because its their 13 per month.

 

So ultimately, I don't think much will change in that regard. But as a roleplayer, urgh, yes please. I'd love to just skip that whole damn MSQ up to Ishgard at least. But perhaps only make it so you can only boost one job class up per character? And obviously don't allow it to be used for DoH/DoL classes.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I'm not really big on level jump / story jump potions. And should SE decide to implement them for the international release, I'd really hope they keep those two things separate. FFXIV is heavily story-oriented and I do think people should have to play through it at least once. If they really hate it that much, then they can skip all the cutscenes like I did on my alt after having gone through it on my main.

 

For a level jump, we've already seen that people -can- learn how to play a class/job starting off with a bunch of skills. (3.X new jobs). They all started at lv30 with all their skills up to lv30 and I'd say that while the learning curve was a little high at first, it wasn't too bad. I would definitely make it a requirement that they'd need to go through the hall of the novice for that role and if a hall of the intermediate was introduced, that they'd have to go through that too.

 

Palace of the Dead already enables a player to try out new classes/jobs with all the skills (assuming they have a soul crystal) before actually getting to that level. It's how I premade my AST crossbar before I hit lv50. Certainly, a level-jump potion could be forced into a similar manner.

[Kage]

I have no real hate or bias against them anymore as I honestly don't care too much whether or not people use them. People skip the story anyhow. People skip content anyway (just yesterday I saw a SCH who was working on A12Savage who had never been in Titan EX before synced). People don't care for the story.

 

Sooner or later we're going to get to a point where people would then need to jump into a game 2 expansions in. Do they really need to get through that?

 

Did I care that they locked one expansions behind the main game once? Back then I was like "sure, seems legit." Now, I can see why it can be detrimental to lock everything until you reach a certain stage etc.

 

It doesn't matter about whether or not people know how to play their roles. People don't know how to do that and they had to go through all that time, I see no difference.

 

I've heard that one of the World First players bought their account before they tackled the content and that it is/was widely known amongst hardcore raiders.

[Faye]

I don't necessarily think you should be able to just buy levels, but I think SE does need to have a way to skip parts of the MSQ. The amount of quests between hitting the former level cap at 50 and the start of Heavensward is ridiculous (and I've no doubt it will be the same from 60 to the next expansion), and SE has just given them better rewards to make them more tolerable rather than condensing them, even though the majority were just added to keep players busy between expansions, making some of the quests rather asinine. It's daunting and annoying for someone who recently picked up the game and just wants to play with Heavensward content with their friends (we need to face the reality that not everyone is going to care to follow the story on their first play through, and there's really no reason to try to force them), and even more annoying as someone who's already completed it all trying to level a new character to 60. I leveled BLM on an alt. From MSQ alone, she is nearly level 53 already, and still nowhere near the start of Heavensward. I've done hours of post-50 content before even coming close to the expansion.

[Nero]

As far as new players go, I don't think jump potions are necessary. However, I do think that at the bare minimum, the 2.0 content (basically everything between the Praetorium and the start of Heavensward) needs a desperate trimming.

 

A lot of the patch quests consisted of handing out T-shirts or mindless running around to pad out the patch content. Pointless faffing-about is sort of a staple in JRPGs, and a lot of the courier quests need to be destroyed and just given way to, "Hey, you're the Warrior of Light so we delegated someone to do the courier things for you".

 

For alts, I think jump potions are fine as long as you have one character at level 60. Context is a pretty important aspect of the story and setting though, important enough that I don't think new players should skip it.

[ExAtomos]

For anyone new to game, I'm dead set against em. It's hard enough to learn the xbar full of skills for AST, MCH, and DRK when you start at 30 and some folks are damn clueless at 50 & 60 even though they had to level the usual way as is. For those that already are at 60 and just want to level an alt class? ... hm, nah I'm still against em.

 

I actually run a large LS specifically for leveling alts and alt classes, so this is a matter I've had to consider making an official policy on. (Full disclosure: I love leveling, it's why I have the LS. I have 3 characters at the end of HW, 3 more in 2.1, and one more I just started out. And each have multiple leveled classes.) That being said, the msq could definitely use some streamlining already. All those fetch quests and especially the *insert a lot of rude words here* "oh you meant the EARTH crystal" quests around level 40ish can go. It doesn't help that quests give half the exp of a single at-level fate too....

[Roen]

I do think new players should go through the MSQ and general leveling for both context as well as just learning how to play their class.

 

But now as I work on an alt... MSQ and leveling is PAAAAINFUUUUL (although they did modify things like aether current locations and such to be more friendly to questing and leveling, YAY). I would love a jump potion for an alt. If you already have that class to 60 on a main and have gone through the MSQ, then going through it AGAIN on another character on the same account is just wasted. And it kills some enthusiasm as well.

 

And yes, no more WoL handing T-shirts please. That quest always makes me grind my teeth. Just trim the MSQ to make it more streamlined, interesting, and epic storytelling.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

What might work out better is a EXP boosting potion (or script) that only works for certain pre-current content Expansions. Like a "300% EXP boost when under level 50/60/70/etc" item to help speed new players along while reducing the number of fluff quests needed.

 

When I leveled up my alt, I'd found that the 2.0 MSQ quests are already pretty much doing this. I didn't need to grind fates, dungeons or levequests (aside from ranking up in my Grand Company. That needs a boost tbh). Heavensward could do the same. They've already cut a lot of the fat out of recent patches to better streamline people getting into content.

[Dravus]

I'd only support them if they were exclusive to players who have already completed 2.0 and 3.0 on at least one character on their account. I absolutely loathe the mentality that 'only the end game matters' - especially in a game such as this that tries very hard to keep most old content relevant and healthy.

 

Like many FFXIV players I invested in WoW before moving over to try FFXIV. Out of every MMO that has cropped up over the last decade or so FFXIV is the only one to have kept my interest other than WoW. I've since turned my back on WoW due to various reasons - and one of those reasons was the steady decline in quality and increasingly dubious moneymaking schemes embraced by the developers.

 

Such as inexplicably raising the subscription price for UK players. Something like a 'jump potion' being available to everybody not only rewards laziness but risks setting a dangerous precedent. If they add something like it - a clear 'pay to win' purchase - it could very well lead to a slippery slope with even more liberties being taken with the Mog Station.

 

I'm lucky enough to have a disposable income but for me it's a matter of the game's integrity. Appeasing the 'only mah end game matters' crowd risks leading to that sort of mentality becoming dominant. In turn this could have a dire impact upon future development decisions - leading to less focus on telling a good story and more on just providing content and content alone.

[T'shina]

I feel that jump potions will be nice. At least for people who have been playing and have classes to 60. I currently have six classes to 60 and am working on a seventh. I hate grinding out levels but I make goals for it every day because there are only so many ways to level classes after you've gone through main story. So I would use a jump potion for my alts, or just for classes on an existing character that has made it through the story and quests already.

 

I feel that it would have to be a requirement that you've gotten a character to 60 though (or 70 when Stormsblood comes out because a lot of the time things are registered by max level) just to get a character to 50 or 60 but never really... max level.

[Nodem]

Okay Jump potions... Man I jumping. *hits the spacebar* A potion to ju... oh... Not that kind of jumping...

 

As a person whom has leveled five characters to 50, three are at sixty now, a main with a lot of 60's, and will most likely will level more just because; I feel these should be restricted to those players whom have a 60 with finished MSQ on their account. While I understand new players wish to instantly be with everybody else, they lose the ability to learn their jobs, and the story if they instantly jump to the newest content/stuff. While you can argue the 'learning their jobs' all you like, it is no less true. Remember when HW came out? Nobody knew how to play the HW jobs correctly and it was kind of nuts because that experience from 1-30 was lost.

 

Assuming they get restricted to only those people with a lvl60, completed MSQ (3.x series for reference); I feel it'll give people a chance to get those other jobs up that they've wanted to get up, or an alt they wanted to get to HW but didn't have the time, patience, and sanity (or lack there-of) to grind a new toon through the MSQ. I know I have an alt or two I'd love to just 'jump' into HW stuff and up in levels just to skip 2.x all over again. Also 3.0... I've love to skip those damnable moogles and millions of side quests. @_@

[Cecily Jisi]

 

The only issue I see from this is someone who buys the potion for a job they have no idea how to play and won't take the time to actually figure it out and going into these dungeons and making things more painful to get through than they should be.

 

That, I believe, is what Palace of the Dead is for. It grants you access to skills early on so you can learn what to do rather quickly.

 

As for my opinion on this matter, I say it's great for making an alt or even help a friend be ready to hop in alongside you and your company.

[Cecily Jisi]

I think the main issue about jump potions in FFXIV is... well... the plot is very heavily story-oriented. And locked behind the quests. So, would jump potions allow you to bypass all the gates? Such as, for example, Ishgard being locked behind the MSQ? If not, you're getting a bunch of levels to basically still be forced to plow your way through the dungeons.

 

On the other hand, for alts that I use mainly for RP and the like, the idea of being able to get them to the levels needed to make full use of the wide range of outfits and glamours... it's quite appealing. Especially for those who might be here solely for the RP and the dress-up and less the PvE side of things.

 

Ultimately, I think I'd need more information on these things before I could fully pass judgement. Like, does it make you max level in EVERYTHING? Or is it one class/job per potion? I'd assume the latter, of course, but you never know given the leveling system in FFXIV. Do you have to use it at creation, or is it something you can use on a character that is already existent? There's a lot of questions to be answered.

 

From what I understand, the jump potion would basically skip you past the story.

[Edda]

I don't think they should be a thing. I understand their purpose in countries like China, where the subscription model is different, but anywhere else - no thank you. Whether it's skipping to 50/60 or just getting a pass through MSQ, new players should have to do it all. I would be fine with a one character, one job boost ala Legion when we're six expansions deep, but we're nowhere near that point as of yet.

 

That being said... bypassing MSQ restrictions on alts should absolutely be a thing. Have a character that's max level and already done X amount of MSQ? Then any alts on that account should be able to waltz into Ishgard in their level one skivvies(they'll still have to level of course). I also think that should be standard, not the result of some $10 potion. But that will never happen.

[Gegenji]

From what I understand, the jump potion would basically skip you past the story.

That's the bit that bothers me the most, I think.

 

FFXIV is far more story-oriented than WoW ever was, and a lot of the content was tied directly to the plot. Why various dungeons existed and why the Warrior of Light was even going into them. Even the hard modes of the dungeons seem to refer to the first time you go into them in their setup and layout. That's a lot of information and nuance that would just be... overlooked... if someone could just skip past it. And would likely lead to a lot of folks confused at the story they'd be coming in at and asking a bunch of questions - unless the new story is completely self-contained and wouldn't require any clarification based off previous events.

 

That said, if folks really didn't care at all about the story (an odd thing considering how plot-focused the game is), would they really be missing out all that much? Yes, they'd be a bit inexperienced in what the abilities and roles do but - as mentioned - there are folks who got to 60 the normal way and still don't know what they're doing. And you might even get more folks coming in who could potentially pick stuff up quick... because they can jump right in with a friend or family member who's already at the endgame level.

 

It's really difficult to say. Understanding the story, understanding their job... those are both things that aren't specifically tied to level or even having gone through all the content. You can get lore elsewhere, and you can still take steps to learn your class at any level.

[Noxtis316]

I ended up skipping a lot of the cut-scenes. Therefore, I often end up skipping the story connected to them when I leveled. (And sometimes the dialogue...When I look at lore I also look at story, and I did that before I even got into the game.)

The Pathfinders, when they joined me to help me at parts of the dungeons/trails required for MSQ progression, would tell me that it is okay to see the cut-scene. But with the trails and raids, there are others and those people that have already BEEN to the content- I don't like making people wait. Plus I can review the story at another point in time, I can review the lore at another point in time. 

 

So the jump potions? I can understand the use for them. I can also understand why people are against it. Do I like the idea?  I think they are optional. No strong like or dislike from me here about these. I wouldn't feel like my time leveling is a waste...I certainly am not making alts to go through the MSQ again...

[Valence]

Ethys sums up my opinion pretty well.

 

e0V8w4o-zRE

 

 

Also, the dev notes said that the potential jump potions for 4.0 will jump players to lvl60 and the end of Heavensward if I remember correctly.

[Sounsyy]

You can get lore elsewhere

 

Job security.

 

Though in all seriousness, I am very against a potion that would enable a new player to skip any significant portion of the MSQ, free 60 class or no. I think that's an option best reserved for players with an existing MSQ-current character. If for no other reason than it goes against their longstanding model of rehashing old content for progression to assist the queues of new players experiencing the content for the first time. But also I admit I'd be slightly peeved at a new player skipping three years worth of story only to ask for a summary on a forum.

[Syranelle Ironleaf]

I'm all for things that let friends play with friends.  Having played through the MSQ three times now, I can completely understand not wanting to go through all that headache and new players potentially getting discouraged when all they want to do is hang out with their friends and have fun.

 

The game can be taught, even at end-game, a lot of people just don't care to.  They expect people to inherently know how to play a game they've been playing for years.  If I'm signing on to a monthly sub to play friends, I'd certainly hope my friends cared enough to at least help me get acclimated to the game and playing decently.  

 

That said, there will always be "bad" players and people who don't know how to play the game.  Always.  You're never going to get around it, so why punish good people who just want to come and have fun with their friends, same as you, on the misconception that anyone who "jumps" is automatically someone who will be terrible at the game.  It's this kind of mentality that's slowly pervading gaming communities and making them the "toxic" places people have come to know and love.  "You aren't as good at this game as I am, even though I've been playing for years, so that automatically means you suck."

 

Just let people play together and have fun.  If it's not your brand of fun, then just... don't play with them.  Stick to your statics, your circle of friends, and leave the mentoring to people who genuinely have an interest in helping others, jumpers or not.

[Zhavi]

I'm for either tying it to an account with a character advanced to 60 MSQ point whatever, or veteran reward tier whatever.

 

But as someone who likes leveling characters, it's not 1-50 (and, I guess you could say, 51-60) that's problematic in any way. It's the gate at 50 that irritates me. As someone else said, it needs trimming. Most of that "story" is unnecessarily broken up into a bajillion little mini quests (glorified messenger) that feel punishing rather than illustrative about what's going on, and would be likely to encourage a new player eager to get to the endgame to just skip them anyways -- except now they're gonna be frustrated by it.

 

....honestly I'd love a 'story' skip pot even just at 50 (and, once I stop being lazy, prolly post 3.0 stuff at 60, too). That's when I start getting whiny. The rest can be tedious, but it's the interruption to the feeling of progressing in levels that is, imo, truly frustrating.

[Shofie]

I'm curious how this would be handled in lieu of the fact that MSQ unlocks everything for you. Dungeons, raids, chocobo, grand company stuff, etc.