Roleplaying in Public, but not..in public?

[Claihn]

I find the majority of conflict that occurs from these situations comes from a lack of communication. Heck, you could argue that a ton of conflicts that occur in general in OOC RP land comes from a lack of it.

 

If you can read a situation and believe strolling on up is fine, then go for it with the understanding that your attempt might be hit or miss- as would be any interaction in the real world (although of course, you cannot be ignored there... well, you -could- but that's a tangent I won't go down! ) I often will just stroll up to people, but if I'm a little intimidated or unsure, then I simply send a tell. Likewise, I never get upset at someone -else- sending me a tell asking for permission. That's ridiculous to be upset over. "They are breaking my immersion by OOCly asking me if it is okay to join." You are in a make believe pixel game where OOC people can run around naked and ride around on herds of magical ponies at any time. If a single tell takes you out of your immersion, then perhaps you should be in a less public place for your scene.

 

Anywho! I just find being polite and understanding about -either- side of the coin is immensely helpful. Not only will it help your sanity, but generally interactions will go better from an OOC stand point. (Not talking about IC characters, of course!) If you're salty and jump to conclusions if someone does not want to partake in public RP with you, etc... you'll just have a bad time in general.

 

Anyway, public RP in an MMO is a bit of a circus at times. You just have to be patient and acknowledge that everyone comes from different walks of life and varying experiences in RP. The person who RPs they have a gameboy (as I saw mentioned haha) will probably not mesh well with the person who RPs a lack of technology existing. Just an example of course, as this MMO obviously has degrees of technology. : )

 

-flees back into the cardboard box-

[Nero]

As far my own roleplay is concerned, if I'm roleplaying in /say then I'm inviting random people to join or at least attempt to join unannounced. There's really no point in roleplaying openly if you're not willing to at least entertain the thought of people from the world joining in.

 

If I don't want people to join, then I just go to party chat where I type in my usual third-person style.

[Gegenji]

An interesting question got brought up by Zhavi in the chat that kind of fits the theme of this discussion. My apologizes if I butchered the framing of it. Anyway, the basic idea of the question was this:

 

Would you rather:

a.) See all open world RP (minus ERP, of course), but with the understanding that you may be unable to interact some of it (so sort of how things are currently), or

b.) Have all the "not really" public RP confined to party chat and whispers, and ONLY see the few public RPs that you could immediately interact with without having to ask first?

 

Something like that. I'm sure Zhavi could come in and slap me upside the head if my phrasing is too far off from the idea.

 

Anyway, I was of the mindset that... even if you can't actively engage and interact with some people's open-world RP, it's still a nice thing to have. It adds substance and life to the world, makes it seem more alive regardless of how interactive it may be. It's still set dressing, background noise, and I feel it heavily helps in that desired feeling of immersion with the world itself.

 

Situation B just seems like you'd have all the people still standing around... but with nothing (seemingly) happening. All in a dead silence, which just seems more creepy and potentially upsetting to me than anything else. I'd rather the "fake" bustle that I can't actually jump in on to what would - to me - seem like little more than a wax museum.

[Kilieit]

Anyway, I was of the mindset that... even if you can't actively engage and interact with some people's open-world RP, it's still a nice thing to have. It adds substance and life to the world, makes it seem more alive regardless of how interactive it may be. It's still set dressing, background noise, and I feel it heavily helps in that desired feeling of immersion with the world itself.

 

Situation B just seems like you'd have all the people still standing around... but with nothing (seemingly) happening. All in a dead silence, which just seems more creepy and potentially upsetting to me than anything else. I'd rather the "fake" bustle that I can't actually jump in on to what would - to me - seem like little more than a wax museum.

 

I think I agree here - & honestly it doesn't seem that far off from RL, where I can sit in a café for 30 minutes and hear 30 different conversations going on and be welcome to join in exactly zero of them. People-watching is its own fun.

 

Furthermore - at risk of making this so-far mild post somewhat otherwise - it's important to cultivate the skill of being able to enjoy other people's creativity without immediately feeling the need/obligation to throw yours in the mix as well, and without feeling bitter if your contribution isn't welcome or invited. Even when your presence is anticipated and/or invited, it can be important to be able to recognise - without any rancor - when it's time for you and/or your character to take a step back and let someone else do their thing for a little bit... and then do that.

 

Honestly, that's something I struggle with, but it's something I know I struggle with. If anything, eavesdropping on others' RP without being welcome to join it is an opportunity for me to exercise my abilities to understand that just because right now my character isn't at the forefront of everything doesn't mean that I'm being ignored, or that I've done something wrong, or that it's always going to be like this. It just means that's how things are right now.

[ExAtomos]

Butting in when you have nothing to contribute? Sure, rude in game and out. But let's go with you, a cabinetmaker, overhearing a couple talking about how they wish they could find someone to help them make the cabinets of their dreams. Or even closer to possible... you sitting at a fast food joint and overhearing someone from the next table over saying they want to play ffxiv but don't know anyone in game. Unless you have severe social anxiety, would you really not lean over with an "Excuse me, did you say ffxiv?" (If the person says 'fuck off', then you know why they don't have anyone to play with and you move on.)

 

It makes no sense for me to butt into someone's RP if it's not relevant to my interests, but if it IS and they are using public chat, you bet your ass I'm gonna infiltrate the convo.

 

I mean... maybe I'm Southern? but this whole "everyone can RP out loud and none of us will dare actually interact with each other" makes zero sense to me.

[Roen]

 

Would you rather:

a.) See all open world RP (minus ERP, of course), but with the understanding that you may be unable to interact some of it (so sort of how things are currently), or

b.) Have all the "not really" public RP confined to party chat and whispers, and ONLY see the few public RPs that you could immediately interact with without having to ask first?

 

 

I too like people watching. I enjoy watching scenes unfold even if I have nothing to do with it. So definitely I would prefer option A.

 

I think I am half half on when I RP in party and when I RP in public. It really depends on the preferences of those I am RPing with and the nature of the RP itself. But if I am RPing in /s and /em, I don't mind other RPers overhearing it or even reacting to it. If they approach, our interaction will depend on the context. If it is a private conversation, then my character will say so.

 

I also agree with the idea that just because someone is RPing in public, it may not an automatic invitation for everyone to jump in right then and there but can serve as an advertisement that might interest others to RP with them later down the line.

 

I think there has been a lot of differing opinions here, and I don't think any one of them are absolutely wrong. I just think they are just different preferences and it's always best to acknowledge that try to go with the flow.

[Michikyou]

I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there, why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?

 

And Im sorry if this next comment sounds offensive, in regards to PC culture.

In the Larp community in New Zealand we have had a very sudden and rapid growth in the community due to a big boon in members joining, all being Transgender or in the LGQT spectrum. While we've had 'Queer' (I have no idea if this word is offensive, im sorry) We had never had to deal with the community changes and thus, things in general became more PC to accommodate these people and their triggers. Especially in dark roleplay themes, things got very limited to the point of non-existence.

 

 

I've noticed something similar (but not exactly the same) happening on Balmung especially. many people have told me tha Balmung is the 'Safe Gay/Lesbian/Quuer/LGBTQA' haven of Roleplay for these groups. And usually in cases i've personally witnessed, these people have been through a lot which could lead to some of the PC issue we have today.

 

I could just be making mountains out of molehills, or completely underestimate the situation, but yeh. What i've wittnessed.

 

(Also, I have nothing against these people! :3 they're all good by me. Just an observation comparing one fiction avenue to another)

[Nako Vesh]

While we've had 'Queer' (I have no idea if this word is offensive, im sorry) We had never had to deal with the community changes and thus, things in general became more PC to accommodate these people and their triggers. Especially in dark roleplay themes, things got very limited to the point of non-existence.

 

I'm sorry, what? Were you guys LARPing being abusive to trans characters or something and then had to change when trans people made themselves known in your circle? I really have to wonder what this "dark" RP is. Also, protip: These folks have always been in your gaming groups, but the fact that they haven't revealed themselves to you should make you think.

 

This "PC CULTURE IS RUINING EVERYTHING!!!111" garbage is tired and makes my eyes roll into orbit. It's not the reason for people being hesitant about public RP, for god's sake. I have to go with Gegenji's theory of nerds gonna be nerds. Seriously, we should make a poll. How many of us have social hangups or anxieties over initiating or joining RP? I bet the number would be high. And is sending a quick whisper really so massively catastrophic to your RP? Molehills.

 

Also, using queer is fine, considering there are queer studies at universities.

[Kilieit]

I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there' date=' why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?[/quote']

 

Like - "is my character invisible until I signify I want to join in" - kinda yeah? I don't think it's that uncommon to have to mentally assume someone's toon is not there until they've done something to specify otherwise, and whether that "something" is dropping an IC emote or sending an OOC tell is largely inconsequential in terms of the ignoring and the fact it only ends on cue.

 

Because... until you're doing something specific to signify that you're there IC, there's always the chance that you're just flitting about OOCly doing quests or something? Even with the RP tag, some people use it to signify that they're an RPer in general and not that they are currently RPing, so it's not exactly a guarantee. And IMO, it's more damaging to the flow of RP to acknowledge someone IC and then have them immediately teleport away, than it is to just ignore them until they do something to make it clear they're interested.

 

On to simply dropping an emote versus sending a tell - aside from the other advantage I mentioned earlier (getting a better litmus on whether these are actually people you want to interact with or not), sending a tell gives an avenue for the players to fill you in on missing context. Like, depending on how long you've been there for, you might or might not have caught context emotes that would still be immediately obvious to your character, such as:

- Person A is holding an oversized sword that does not look like it belongs to them.

- Person B smells really, really bad. Rotting morbol bad.

- Person C's hand is not a hand at all and is actually an unadorned metal hook.

- Person D and E are whispering to each other in the background.

- Person F is eating an absurdly bright plate of food. Like, it looks like it might not actually be edible. But they're eating it.

- Person G is singing loudly and off-key to themself.

And so on and so on. An OOC tell allows the person an opportunity to fill you in on stuff like this, give a quick "last time on This Roleplay Scene", before you dive in - at least, when I get whispered like that, that's what I use it as a chance to do.

 

It just provides a better avenue for... well, communication. Of all kinds, I think. We don't have physreps in this medium, so we have to rely on text-based communications instead for the same information. And emoting it out creatively again and again and again gets tiresome for me to write and for the people I was already RPing with to read, trust me (as someone who plays a character who diverges from his in-game model).

[Michikyou]

snip

 

I'm sorry, what? Were you guys LARPing being abusive to trans characters or something and then had to change when trans people made themselves known in your circle? I really have to wonder what this "dark" RP is. Also, protip: These folks have always been in your gaming groups, but the fact that they haven't revealed themselves to you should make you think.

snip

 

Nono, I'm saying it was never a prevalent thing in the LARP community and we had to adjust to accommodate new groups of people we hadn't ever experienced being included in that community.

 

:3 Just like anything, it was new. But a lot of the new members had triggers against Larps with things like gender inequality, abuse, torture etc.

So in NZL we've pretty much just stopped writing dark fantasy games because there are so few topics which can be covered.

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there, why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?

 

If we go back to the coffee shop example for a moment...

 

 

If you and a friend were having an in-depth conversation about something, would you take notice of a stranger listening in? Especially one who was simply listening without any indication that they might turn their attention towards your table and possibly interact with you? ...and that's putting aside if that interaction would even be wanted. It's kinda jarring when an uninvolved person suddenly enters a conversation they weren't...really...a part of. Like, enough to kill the conversation in real life. In those types of moments, I would think that an emote is useful, if not required. And even then, there are plenty of reasons why someone may fail to pick it up, knowingly or not. And when that happens, a courtesy /tell isn't really that jarring. A one-liner like "hey I saw your RP, is it ok if I involve my character" is pretty easy. It could even be turned into a macro like the following, if you wanted to reach out to multiple grounds quickly. (Based off targeting their player character).

 

/tell  ((hey I saw your RP, is it ok if I involve my character?))

[Eses Fafa]

This is tricky, since sometimes you need to tell people there's an 'event' or 'planned RP' going on, and generally such things are best kept to a party chat to alleviate confusion. If they're openly talking and emoting such things in a public area, it's their own fault for giving off the wrong impression and if they're mad about people coming up like that, then they should've stated it was a planned RP or actually think about how they plan such types of roleplay in the first place.

 

I remember an event where some mates of mine and I disguised as Garleans and kept everything within party, though someone came along like 'I suggest you run..' thinking we were openly IC..not sure why someone would try to solo 4 guys but hey, whatcha gonna do? After I explain to her via /tell that it was a reserved event, she let us be.

[V'aleera]

It's the dumb American PC culture what just rules on Balmung. THEE MUST NOT OFFEND ELSE I WILL DEMONISE THOUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

 

And Im sorry if this next comment sounds offensive, in regards to PC culture.

 

You both are trying to center this conversation on something that does not actually exist. "PC culture" is a phantom; a bogeyman invented by the media arms of a particular political sphere for the purpose of rallying support for their own cultural ideology. You telling people to act in a particular way because it's "too PC" is like me telling you to act in a particular way because to do otherwise would incur the wrath of Santa Claus.

 

If you want to discuss a specific social issue you are encountering, describe it thoroughly and specifically and ideally with supporting anecdotes to ensure clarity. Don't use made up words that lack any meaningful definition.

[Zhavi]

I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there, why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?

 

 

 

I think a lot of this thread is certain words getting misread or misunderstood. I've not really seen anyone say they always feel it is necessary to send an ooc message.

 

The point I was trying and not doing a very good job of making was that sometimes ooc communication during, before, or after walkup rp can help to smooth understanding, to help make issues like your example make sense and -- hopefully in the future! -- create smoother rp between you and those individuals. It's not necessarily that they aren't really into full immersion or open world rp, but rather that there might be misunderstandings that can (sometimes) be circumvented through ooc communication.

 

You don't have to. It won't fix everything. But to me it allows me to rp with a wider range of people, because it allows me to counter different ways (and views) of what is ic behaviors, or account for shit that happened before I got there. That's just me, my take from the thread is that other people do just fine without needing to oocly communicate. We're all different!

 

I think my spinoff examples confused the issue further, but that was all I was trying to say.

[Michikyou]

snip

 

If we go back to the coffee shop example for a moment...

 

 

If you and a friend were having an in-depth conversation about something, would you take notice of a stranger listening in? Especially one who was simply listening without any indication that they might turn their attention towards your table and possibly interact with you?

 

/tell  ((hey I saw your RP, is it ok if I involve my character?))

 

 

Either way, if you are emoting nearby that you are listening to them, you should still be allowed to retain the information and not have them snap at you. Just as I, in person could totally listen even if unintentionally, into a conversation at the table next to me where Lady A is complaining about something A, and Person B is agreeing about something A. Etc.

 

They're allowed to completely IC focus on their conversation but it doesn't mean other people don't exist.

[V'aleera]

RP is nothing but a game of consensus. Nothing exists that all involved parties do not agree exists. If they don't want to acknowledge your character's existence then your character does not exist within the scope of their RP; and vice versa.

 

I personally would say that it would be in good form to humor anyone who gleaned IC information by ICly eavesdropping, but I only get to decide that for myself and not anyone else.

[Lydia Lightfoot]

If we go back to the coffee shop example for a moment...

 

If you and a friend were having an in-depth conversation about something, would you take notice of a stranger listening in? Especially one who was simply listening without any indication that they might turn their attention towards your table and possibly interact with you? ...and that's putting aside if that interaction would even be wanted. It's kinda jarring when an uninvolved person suddenly enters a conversation they weren't...really...a part of. Like, enough to kill the conversation in real life.

 

Just to play devil's advocate a moment... a coffee shop isn't a private space, and in my experience at least - as a person who randomly interacts with people because I have no sense of social decorum - people tend not to be offended if someone nearby chimes in on their conversation (or if they preferred not to have someone join in, I've literally never had someone get shitty toward me, they just politely excuse themselves and leave the not-private coffee shop to go find somewhere actually-private to continue their conversation).

 

More to the point, this also depends severely on the topic at hand. If two moms are at said coffee shop discussing how well their kids are doing in little league, that's a harmless enough sort of topic and they're unlikely to object at all if someone chimes in with some relevant anecdote about their own kid or their own experience in little league when they were younger (obviously, butting into the discussion with a comment totally unrelated would not go over well, of course). However, if it's three people talking about the house they just got done burgling and how they're going to pawn everything to buy meth, who gives a damn if they'd be offended by someone jumping into that discussion, because the topic at hand is one which is apparently alarming to those outside of the conversation.

 

So to translate that into an RP circumstance, if some people are roleplaying on the street in Ul'dah and collectively emoting how they're beating the crap out of another character, and said character is obviously outmatched and hasn't apparently done anything wrong, and I choose to have my character join the fray, those players have no right to object to it. They're roleplaying something which would be naturally alarming to passersby, and they're doing said roleplay openly. If they can't handle random participants joining in, maybe they shouldn't be publicly roleplaying a topic which begs random participants to join in.

[V'aleera]

If they can't handle random participants joining in, maybe they shouldn't be publicly roleplaying a topic which begs random participants to join in.

 

Would it be an unfair rebuttal on their part to state that if you don't like seeing roleplay that is not open to your involvement in a particular channel that you are free to mute that channel and ignore it?

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Would it be an unfair rebuttal on their part to state that if you don't like seeing roleplay that is not open to your involvement in a particular channel that you are free to mute that channel and ignore it?

 

Entirely unfair, because that's pretty much the same as them saying "Oh, you witnessed a crime in a public place in real life and you found that unsettling? Guess you should go around everywhere with a blindfold on, huh." Nobody should have to - and nobody is going to - deactivate their /say and /emote channels.

[Gegenji]

So to translate that into an RP circumstance, if some people are roleplaying on the street in Ul'dah and collectively emoting how they're beating the crap out of another character, and said character is obviously outmatched and hasn't apparently done anything wrong, and I choose to have my character join the fray, those players have no right to object to it. They're roleplaying something which would be naturally alarming to passersby, and they're doing said roleplay openly. If they can't handle random participants joining in, maybe they shouldn't be publicly roleplaying a topic which begs random participants to join in.

 

That's just it, though. They have every right to object to you imposing yourself into their scene if they don't want you their. It's their RP - just because you can see it doesn't give you some magical dominion over it.

[Michikyou]

So to translate that into an RP circumstance, if some people are roleplaying on the street in Ul'dah and collectively emoting how they're beating the crap out of another character, and said character is obviously outmatched and hasn't apparently done anything wrong, and I choose to have my character join the fray, those players have no right to object to it. They're roleplaying something which would be naturally alarming to passersby, and they're doing said roleplay openly. If they can't handle random participants joining in, maybe they shouldn't be publicly roleplaying a topic which begs random participants to join in.

 

That's just it, though. They have every right to object to you imposing yourself into their scene if they don't want you their. It's their RP - just because you can see it doesn't give you some magical dominion over it.

But the game has avenues to reduce that. If they dont want anyone coming into their roleplay use those provided channels.

[LiadansWhisper]

I just find it odd that i is a requirement for most people to ask them first to approach despite them already role playing in public. if my character is there, why are they invisible to someone until I ask permission?

 

If we go back to the coffee shop example for a moment...

 

 

If you and a friend were having an in-depth conversation about something, would you take notice of a stranger listening in? Especially one who was simply listening without any indication that they might turn their attention towards your table and possibly interact with you? ...and that's putting aside if that interaction would even be wanted. It's kinda jarring when an uninvolved person suddenly enters a conversation they weren't...really...a part of. Like, enough to kill the conversation in real life. In those types of moments, I would think that an emote is useful, if not required. And even then, there are plenty of reasons why someone may fail to pick it up, knowingly or not. And when that happens, a courtesy /tell isn't really that jarring. A one-liner like "hey I saw your RP, is it ok if I involve my character" is pretty easy. It could even be turned into a macro like the following, if you wanted to reach out to multiple grounds quickly. (Based off targeting their player character).

 

/tell  ((hey I saw your RP, is it ok if I involve my character?))

 

Well, people just talk to you here. Total strangers. All the time. And it doesn't stop conversation.

[V'aleera]

Nobody should have to - and nobody is going to - deactivate their /say and /emote channels.

 

Bear in mind you are free to blacklist them as well. The tools to curate your social experience are at your disposal, the onus is on you to use them.

[Verad]

I could just be making mountains out of molehills, or completely underestimate the situation, but yeh. What i've wittnessed.

 

This is exactly what you are doing.

[Caspar]

So to translate that into an RP circumstance, if some people are roleplaying on the street in Ul'dah and collectively emoting how they're beating the crap out of another character, and said character is obviously outmatched and hasn't apparently done anything wrong, and I choose to have my character join the fray, those players have no right to object to it. They're roleplaying something which would be naturally alarming to passersby, and they're doing said roleplay openly. If they can't handle random participants joining in, maybe they shouldn't be publicly roleplaying a topic which begs random participants to join in.

 

That's just it, though. They have every right to object to you imposing yourself into their scene if they don't want you their. It's their RP - just because you can see it doesn't give you some magical dominion over it.

But the game has avenues to reduce that. If they dont want anyone coming into their roleplay use those provided channels.

You could apply this same logic to avoiding awkward exchanges with people RPing privately. I don't see why the responsibility needs to be theirs alone. You, after all, are the one imposing.