The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Melodia]

"Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."

 

Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."

 

Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.

 

 

If there's someone parsing a 4-man dungeon, then the only reason they should be bothering is to improve their OWN skills to aid their assumed Savage static that they're supposedly a part of. Not to get on the case of whatever random players they end up with doing some random roulette dungeon. And hell, using parsers isn't ALLOWED by the ToS if I recall - so all the more reason for them to just shut up about it.

 

I've been lucky enough to avoid the parse-holes (hee), but if I ever had one get on me, I'd do one of three things:

 

1.) Ignore them and their useless numbers.

2.) Tell them to shove it since we aren't their raid static.

3.) Initiate a votekick and, if they're being enough of a pain, report them for openly using a parser.

 

You have restored some of my faith in this game with this post. *hugs*

[Aaron]

"Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."

 

Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."

 

Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.

 

I'd just straight up ignore them. The only time I really cared wholeheartedly about my "numbers" and my rotation and all that nonsense was when I was an endgame raider in WoW. You know, with the Heroic instances where you had to kill a boss in five minutes or he'd flip out and murder everyone. Outside of that? As long as stuff is dying and we're progressing without anything overly stupid going on (healer refusing to get out of Cleric Stance, NIN running off to pull, BLM solely using Ice spells), I'm fine.

 

If there's someone parsing a 4-man dungeon, then the only reason they should be bothering is to improve their OWN skills to aid their assumed Savage static that they're supposedly a part of. Not to get on the case of whatever random players they end up with doing some random roulette dungeon. And hell, using parsers isn't ALLOWED by the ToS if I recall - so all the more reason for them to just shut up about it.

 

I've been lucky enough to avoid the parse-holes (hee), but if I ever had one get on me, I'd do one of three things:

 

1.) Ignore them and their useless numbers.

2.) Tell them to shove it since we aren't their raid static.

3.) Initiate a votekick and, if they're being enough of a pain, report them for openly using a parser.

Or you can do what I do, if they're not the tank (because 9/10 I am) just bring the adds over to them and say "Lets see your parser save ya ass now :P"

 

I've done that every time my PUG gets one of those assholes. I always get comms before I leave the dungeon.

[Dravus]

I hold the firm belief that parsers bring out the worst in people. It's why I really hope that the developers take a tougher stance against such things but I doubt that'll happen because most people now know that so long as they don't discuss it in-game they can get away with using them.

 

This has shifted FFXIV's culture to the point where more and more people have begun to use a parser - which is exactly what happened with Wow and eventually led to increased toxicity within the community.

 

I think it's fair to expect other players to do their best but so long as they're doing just enough to get by then there's really no reason to hound them relentlessly. If content is tuned to be tackled with each player dishing out 500 DPS then does it really matter is one guy is dishing out 450 and someone else is pulling 800? The end result is still the same - the content is cleared.

 

The exception to this is during fights specifically tailored as a DPS race such as Bismarck but even then a bit of friendly advice is more likely to be taken into account over a harsh criticism.

[Aedan Marceaux]

To be fair, I can somewhat understand the frustration on the other side... the side of the person bitching about people not pulling there weight. HW is full of DPS checks, both soft and hard.

 

The most recent one for me? The Aery, last boss. Running my DRK through (my 4th 60) and the DPS can't be assed or ... for lack of a better term... good enough to kill the prices (the jail things).

 

It's not a hard fight, and not a hard concept. If you're unable to pull out the dps needed to down that price before whoever is stuck in it is killed... then you really need to reassess what it is you're doing with your job.

 

However, I do agree. A more friendly approach to such things is generally far more effective than the "toxic" one.

[Dravus]

The thing is, players who ignore mechanics and dish out poor DPS are likely to continue doing so irregardless of the presence of a parser. We've reached a point where even players who dishing out more than enough damage in a dungeon are being targeted because they're not performing at the highest possible level.

 

As in...the sort of level people would expect from Alexander Savage. It's quite silly - but again, that didn't stop people having similarly lofty standards for random groups back in WoW. I can understand people doing it if they create their own group through the party finder (and therefore handpick who joins and who doesn't) but in a randomly formed group through the party finder? It's bizarre.

[Aedan Marceaux]

I understand and agree, but in the linked reddit post... I fail to see what could be considered lofty. -Maybe- the "A DPS that parses 500+ level 56+" part... but even then, that's hardly lofty thinking.

 

Otherwise, that entire post came off as someone saying "I really just want to be able to run with people that are capable of doing their jobs," which, in all honesty... is the same thing being said by a large majority of the people in this thread... parser or not.

[Melodia]

We've reached a point where even players who dishing out more than enough damage in a dungeon are being targeted because they're not performing at the highest possible level.

 

 

Yeah, this was the main point of my post. This is the problem lately and it's getting crazy. I got yelled at once for not doing higher DPS in the library. The other two said how silly that was, but it was like, "Wha-? This is still just a roulette correct?" :dazed:

[Dravus]

For what it's worth, I agree that people should be striving to do their best. Yet the Reddit post (to me, at least) reads very much like a witch hunt and something that serves only to fuel yet more animosity within the community. Though I could go off on a tangent about how many people use social media as a means of attacking whoever or whatever happens to have frustrated them on any given day.

 

The vast majority of my dungeon runs are pleasant. In the event that I get the occasional bad apple I strive to offer them advice and if they don't listen then I cut my losses and either vote to kick them or take my leave - whichever proves to be the more efficient option.

 

So perhaps I'm just super lucky and/or patient but most of the chaos I see in the duty finder generally comes from those with unreasonable standards or those who brag about their DPS in content that they overgear considerably.

[Gegenji]

That's basically true. Most of my issues are usually minor things that I just buck up and deal with and complain about later. Like a tank that kept moving bosses out of the Shadow Flares I was putting down with Swiftcast. Or folks running off before buffs are up. Annoying but more or less tolerable.

 

But there's always a couple occasions that are extra bad and stick in your mind. You don't remember all the average runs where you went in, killed stuff, and left. You remember either the ones where something awesome happened (kiting Chimera to death as a NIN in Cutter's Cry) or something awful happened. Still, it's nice to get that sort of frustration off your chest after it happens!

[Leggerless]

This thread and most of the comments attached to it, are most of what I makes me fail to even bother logging in anymore.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3fuahu/at_what_point_is_someones_performance_unacceptable/

 

Yes, everyone should be trying their best but damn it, when did this game change from, oh, I don't know...a game into something akin to a work assignment. No one in this thing is my employer, spouse, or anything that resembles an authority figure. So when someone wants to lecture and yell at me about me "not parsing enough" (and yes, insert sniveling voice there....I intended it as so) it turns me off. I pay for the game. I am doing the best I can, and so are others.

 

If people actually knew how to offer advice rather than "You suck noob! Go git gud or kill yourself" then maybe the lower dps players would improve. But when someone approaches me (a paying damn player....my rl money going into the game) like this, I want to quit because it's ridiculous. "Yur wasting my timez!" is what I hear in reply. I get it if people are actively trolling and not even trying to win, but the difference in time needed to complete an instance from people who are trying but not superpro gamers(trademark pending) versus elite hall of fame level static players, is actually pretty damn minimal in the grand scheme. What else do you have planned in the game that is so time critical that a few extra minutes would destroy such plans? If your answer is anything besides "Not a whole lot to be honest" then maybe your time planning ought to be refigured. No one player is so important that they ought to be lecturing and scolding other DPS folks who fail to meet their precious number requirements. I've gotten so sick of seeing this phenomenon lately that it makes nauseous to even log in anymore.

 

People do offer advice. It's done in-game and in the form of multiple guides such as one, two, three, four, five, and six (not so much a "guide," but it offers advice anyway), excluding Youtube, Reddit, and random tidbits of information spread out everywhere. Telling someone to "git gud" however does not qualify as proper advice, but it does qualify them for the "elitist jerk" achievement (acquisition rates increased with the 3.05 patch, last I checked).

 

I would say screw parsers and other third-party programs used with the game, but they have good intentions when theorycrafting formulas/concepts. (Example 1 and Example 2). Used to make a person feel like a complete failure though? Not a good reason. The only time I talk parser numbers with someone is when they asked me about the rotation they're using; I then check if they're using food, pots, and their opener/base rotation as they're significant factors. Outside of that? Maybe comment on why they aren't using a certain skill (e.g. Ninja not using Shadow Fang/Mutilate), but that's about the extent of it.

 

The thing is, players who ignore mechanics and dish out poor DPS are likely to continue doing so irregardless of the presence of a parser. We've reached a point where even players who dishing out more than enough damage in a dungeon are being targeted because they're not performing at the highest possible level.

 

Isn't this a true enough statement. The days of 2.0 and Wanderer's Palace speed runs are returning to 3.0. Hilarious because its stupid, yet detrimental to the community because it happens anyway.

[Pepe]

This thread and most of the comments attached to it, are most of what I makes me fail to even bother logging in anymore.

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3fuahu/at_what_point_is_someones_performance_unacceptable/

 

Yes, everyone should be trying their best but damn it, when did this game change from, oh, I don't know...a game into something akin to a work assignment. No one in this thing is my employer, spouse, or anything that resembles an authority figure. So when someone wants to lecture and yell at me about me "not parsing enough" (and yes, insert sniveling voice there....I intended it as so) it turns me off. I pay for the game. I am doing the best I can, and so are others.

 

If people actually knew how to offer advice rather than "You suck noob! Go git gud or kill yourself" then maybe the lower dps players would improve. But when someone approaches me (a paying damn player....my rl money going into the game) like this, I want to quit because it's ridiculous. "Yur wasting my timez!" is what I hear in reply. I get it if people are actively trolling and not even trying to win, but the difference in time needed to complete an instance from people who are trying but not superpro gamers(trademark pending) versus elite hall of fame level static players, is actually pretty damn minimal in the grand scheme. What else do you have planned in the game that is so time critical that a few extra minutes would destroy such plans? If your answer is anything besides "Not a whole lot to be honest" then maybe your time planning ought to be refigured. No one player is so important that they ought to be lecturing and scolding other DPS folks who fail to meet their precious number requirements. I've gotten so sick of seeing this phenomenon lately that it makes nauseous to even log in anymore.

 

"Your numbers suck. Your gear sucks. Your [insert whatever the hell you want here] sucks."

 

Translation: "You aren't good enough in MY book."

 

Well YOUR book sucks. And makes the game suck.

 

Just my vent. Which is what I think this thread is for. I feel better now.

 

TL; DR: This isn't a damn job interview. It's a video game of fake pixels and imaginary items. Get over your elite crap, lay off the less than stellar players and (god forbid) relax and have fun.

 

It's 100% reasonable to expect someone who joins a team to expend the bare minimum of effort to carry their weight on the team in this game. If you are pulling Crystal Tower levels of DPS at max level content, you are the asshole. If you have an expectation that strangers should take time out of their day to teach you your class when it's easy as shit to just google up one of the very helpful guides that nice people wrote for everyone, you are the fucking asshole here.

 

Very few people expect anyone to deal savage level DPS in a dungeon. People who post threads like the one you linked just want you to carry your weight.

[Telluride]

 

 

It's 100% reasonable to expect someone who joins a team to expend the bare minimum of effort to carry their weight on the team in this game. If you are pulling Crystal Tower levels of DPS at max level content, you are the asshole. If you have an expectation that strangers should take time out of their day to teach you your class when it's easy as shit to just google up one of the very helpful guides that nice people wrote for everyone, you are the fucking asshole here.

 

Very few people expect anyone to deal savage level DPS in a dungeon. People who post threads like the one you linked just want you to carry your weight.

 

We can assure you that there ARE people who DO expect you to dish that very level of damage in a DF dungeon, and who ARE very arrogant and sometimes have the manners of prepubescent brats. These people ARE assholes, no matter how many guides the rest of the party have or have not read.

 

I actually reported a couple of such people. It was a Vault run, and we were actually doing fine, getting through the content, and then one of a pair, who wasn't doing anywhere near as well as he'd like to believe, starting rattling off how much the others in the party sucked, and how good they were, when if they'd been half as good as they were claiming, we'd have ALL had a cakewalk run. They got nasty about it, too, but made the mistake of announcing that they were parsing the fight.

 

I have some decent tolerance for stupidity (I used to be a teacher, a job incompatible with the urge to tell stupid people the truth about themselves), but when you're going to be abusive AND hypocritical, AND stupid enough to admit that you're using a parser in a game forbidding it, then I'm sorry, karma itself demands you get screencapped and reported.

[Pepe]

 

 

It's 100% reasonable to expect someone who joins a team to expend the bare minimum of effort to carry their weight on the team in this game. If you are pulling Crystal Tower levels of DPS at max level content, you are the asshole. If you have an expectation that strangers should take time out of their day to teach you your class when it's easy as shit to just google up one of the very helpful guides that nice people wrote for everyone, you are the fucking asshole here.

 

Very few people expect anyone to deal savage level DPS in a dungeon. People who post threads like the one you linked just want you to carry your weight.

 

We can assure you that there ARE people who DO expect you to dish that very level of damage in a DF dungeon, and who ARE very arrogant and sometimes have the manners of prepubescent brats. These people ARE assholes, no matter how many guides the rest of the party have or have not read.

 

I actually reported a couple of such people. It was a Vault run, and we were actually doing fine, getting through the content, and then one of a pair, who wasn't doing anywhere near as well as he'd like to believe, starting rattling off how much the others in the party sucked, and how good they were, when if they'd been half as good as they were claiming, we'd have ALL had a cakewalk run. They got nasty about it, too, but made the mistake of announcing that they were parsing the fight.

 

I have some decent tolerance for stupidity (I used to be a teacher, a job incompatible with the urge to tell stupid people the truth about themselves), but when you're going to be abusive AND hypocritical, AND stupid enough to admit that you're using a parser in a game forbidding it, then I'm sorry, karma itself demands you get screencapped and reported.

I'm sure there are a few people who do that, like I said in the post I made. I've never seen them, and the person I was responding to was complaining about a thread where the OP's expectation was that a DPS player be able to out DPS the tank.

[Kellach Woods]

when will you people learn there is no such thing as a community in a mmo and that everyone is an asshole just out to get +2 dps

[LiadansWhisper]

 

 

I'm sure there are a few people who do that, like I said in the post I made. I've never seen them, and the person I was responding to was complaining about a thread where the OP's expectation was that a DPS player be able to out DPS the tank.

 

Man, I wish I didn't run into those people.  I run into them on a fairly regular basis.

[Edda]

It's 100% reasonable to expect someone who joins a team to expend the bare minimum of effort to carry their weight on the team in this game. If you are pulling Crystal Tower levels of DPS at max level content, you are the asshole. If you have an expectation that strangers should take time out of their day to teach you your class when it's easy as shit to just google up one of the very helpful guides that nice people wrote for everyone, you are the fucking asshole here.

 

Very few people expect anyone to deal savage level DPS in a dungeon. People who post threads like the one you linked just want you to carry your weight.

Pretty much this.

 

Barring skilled techniques and tricks, the game pretty much holds your hand in terms of teaching you how to play your job adequately, though the system itself, and via other players. I do not expect Savage-tier raiders in every DF Expert Roulette I run. I do not mind helping people with any questions they may have about their job. I have no issue pointing people in the right direction when it comes to playing the best that they can. However, I do not join an Expert Roulette so I, a WHM, have to do over half of the damage of two DPS so we can finish the run in just under an hour.

 

No one expects greatness, and if they do, they are an asshole. And yet, by failing to perform at even a mediocre level, so too are you. In a subscription based MMO, time is money, and players that cannot do even 1/5 of what they are required to waste not only their own time and money, but that of others.

[Kellach Woods]

oh man i can't wait until mlg finally puts ffxiv in their roster these dudes are gonna make EVERY THE MONEY.

[DeathGodSkeith]

If you are having that much trouble in DF, grab a few Fc members and run your roulettes with them. Duty finder can give you anyone, any attitude and asshole, and any nice guy. If you dont wanna deal with that, grab some friends and run your stuff. This is an mmo and it should be a social experience.

[Korin]

/rant on

 

The only troubles I've had in DF are when I'm DPSing. That accursed yellow bar in the corner of my screen...When am I even supposed to use it? I'm confident enough, as a melee DPS - Just use it! As a ranged? I don't really know. As a caster...Again, I don't really know. Most of the time I daren't touch it.

 

Why?

 

Because there's always one person that'll call you out on it. I've been levelling MCH on Korin lately - It's a nice change from tanking all of the time! I'll usually take a friend or two with me, but naturally you can't wait for your entire FC to be online just to run a couple of dungeons for the exp...

 

So we were in Sohm Al. My pet DPS was a black mage - So we had two ranged LBs. Lovely! First boss, no one was killing the bees - When I was levelling as a tank, everyone killed the bees! Now a fair few of these bees were pulled in with the healer. LB bar was full - So I had a moment of "oh, I may as well just use this now - Kill off the bees, damage the boss, no one will take that AoE damage..."

 

And then the tank, after his long silence, finally decided to speak.

"Why oh why would you do that?"

 

I wasn't aware that a limit break held that much significance in such a dungeon, to be honest. Admittedly, I'm starting to think no one bothers to use it precisely because of people like that particular tank. The bar would've filled up by the time we'd reached the next boss anyway, right? It isn't going to hinder our chances of success, is it?

 

Personally I don't really care much for who uses LB and when - I tend to just hassle my dragoon if she hasn't used it on a bossfight yet and that's that. But in pugs, no one really bothers to call LB before the boss is dead.

 

/rant off

 

That aside, what I really want to ask is - What situations do people expect (ranged) DPS to use that LB on, and when? Am I thinking too hard into this? It's the first time I've really been called out on it, so I'm forever panicking over whether or not I should use it now ;_;

[DeathGodSkeith]

Honestly the lb doesnt mean anything in 4 man content. The normal dungeons are made to be easier content for everyone to enjoy. LB is more of a tool for more challenging content. Personally if ive noticed my pugs not using the lb ill just blow it randomly as a whm or sch for lulz.

[Sounsyy]

That aside, what I really want to ask is - What situations do people expect (ranged) DPS to use that LB on, and when? Am I thinking too hard into this? It's the first time I've really been called out on it, so I'm forever panicking over whether or not I should use it now ;_;

 

I've found that ranged/caster LB is more useful outside of boss fights on large trash pulls. Both ranged and caster LBs are more effective against multiple adds, and in most Heavensward dungeon bosses, multiple overbearing adds rarely come into play. So... use it on a trash heavy section to clear a room quickly.

 

In the Vault, for example, towards the last boss there's a room with a Priest who summons four winged statues. Ranged/Caster LB makes short work of those adds. In Sohm Al, ranged/caster LB can be used against the massive assault of dragons and their adds shortly after the... second boss I think? But if a situation never really arises where there's a large contingent of adds, save LB for a melee dps to hit a boss with. It's not really a big deal in all honesty. The damage done by an LB1 could probably be near-equaled by the melee dps just keeping up his damage in the time it takes to cast. Good clutch burst though if you truly need it.

 

 

A little off topic, but the Rafflesia boss at the start of Sohm Al can be killed without ever killing bees. By having all DPS focus the boss, bees can be ignored so long as no one actively points Rafflesia's draw-in towards the bees, hastening the stack increase. If you just straight burn, can kill the boss with just a few bees swallowed, and the healer can aoe heal through it. But this strategy isn't necessarily 'the best' for every party setup. If you have low dps or a healer you don't trust, I would just do mechanics normally.

[Korin]

That aside, what I really want to ask is - What situations do people expect (ranged) DPS to use that LB on, and when? Am I thinking too hard into this? It's the first time I've really been called out on it, so I'm forever panicking over whether or not I should use it now ;_;

 

I've found that ranged/caster LB is more useful outside of boss fights on large trash pulls. Both ranged and caster LBs are more effective against multiple adds, and in most Heavensward dungeon bosses, multiple overbearing adds rarely come into play. So... use it on a trash heavy section to clear a room quickly.

 

It's never occurred to me to use it on trashpulls - Again, simply because I've witnessed people being called out on it in the past. It's something I'd never bring myself to do in a pug group because of this - I'll say my greetings, on occasion I'll have to remind the tank that they forgot to activate their tank stance (usually after the first pull where we're all ripping enmity), and then the rest of the dungeon will be done in complete silence...So it's really become a matter of "keep your head down and keep up your DPS". I'm quite curious to try what you mentioned in the vault, though...

 

I have to admit with a pug healer I'm somewhat reluctant to try burning down that Rafflesia boss - I've occasionally been called to ignore the bees, which I do when asked, but otherwise it's a little awkward. I don't really want to be the one wiping the group - At the same time, I don't want to be 'that guy' slowing them down. The sad fact is that I'm not a mind reader, despite what a lot of these groups seem to think. ;; I do appreciate the advice though! I don't really get to limit break as a tank for obvious reasons, so when they suddenly add this DPS limit break to the ranged...I'm still a little out of my depth.

 

 

Honestly the lb doesnt mean anything in 4 man content. The normal dungeons are made to be easier content for everyone to enjoy. LB is more of a tool for more challenging content. Personally if ive noticed my pugs not using the lb ill just blow it randomly as a whm or sch for lulz.

 

That's pretty much what I thought. I don't mind being called out if I'm doing something wrong - But sometimes I do feel like people are just out for conflict. If they're going to apply their own rules to how it's used, then they should say something beforehand, surely? If they want the LB used on a trashpull, perhaps they should ask - Because the attitude I received from the tank made me doubt myself a little. I levelled to 50, for the most part, asking people when they needed me to LB - Eventually it got to the point where it was "eh, just use it on the boss"! And I was comfortable enough that I eventually stopped asking.

 

I know it's just 4-man content and, for me, it probably will always be 4-man content! But it's there to be used, right? If - like you say - It's a situation where no one uses it, and you're popping LB as a healer just for the sake of it...I do wonder if most people don't know it's there, or if they're just unsure when and where is a good time to use it.

 

Probably just rambling now on my part, though. I'm not thick skinned, but I know it's a wee bit sad that I'd show up to rant about some guy scolding me over my LB use >.> When I should really be going "eh, screw that guy! Moving on!"

[Manari]

This has been bothering me for a while now. And someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, I haven't done any research, only assumptions.

 

I hate now that every bard finally has a stupid DPS limit break, they start mashing it every time a blue limit bar turns yellow. I could have easily finished off a boss but no, the bard wants to fire his silly AoE line and it does sad damage. I'm only assuming mine as a Ninja would do more since it's single target, and its making me mad. Mages don't ever do this to me. Only bards.

[Lamiaris]

I know this might not be considered a rant or a vent, but I'm just really confused!

I keep hearing and reading that people are saying that healers are getting all the hate and all the bashing by group members, kicks included and such..

 

But in playing Scholar pretty consistently in all of my duty finder groups for about a month.. Everyone's been very nice and understanding Nobody hated on me for anything I was doing and I was constantly getting compliments.

 

Could someone please tell me where these haters are? I'd love (AKA hate) to meet my first example of one.. Or am I just incredibly lucky?

[Kage]

This has been bothering me for a while now.  And someone correct me if I'm wrong about this, I haven't done any research, only assumptions.  

 

I hate now that every bard finally has a stupid DPS limit break, they start mashing it every time a blue limit bar turns yellow.  I could have easily finished off a boss but no, the bard wants to fire his silly AoE line and it does sad damage.  I'm only assuming mine as a Ninja would do more since it's single target, and its making me mad.  Mages don't ever do this to me.  Only bards.

It's a small difference but you are correct. Melee Limit Break will do a little more damage than Physical Ranged Limit break.

 

But you have to ask, why aren't you mashing it? The only time I can think of where Limit Break really should be held is to kill BrayHM Last Boss before the big bomb phase. Maybe just use it for a specific big pull (Wanderer's Palace NM Last pull anyone). You could have finished him off, but you didn't. Why was he hitting it faster than you? Was he mashing it right when it hit? Why would you not be?

 

Getting mad over limit break is really just a meh thing. There's no reason to not use it as soon as possible if it's not being used for a specific purpose than to "SPECIAL FINISHERRRR"