3.2 Story and Discovery Thread: HERE BE [SPOILERS]

[Virella]

Man as an Ishgard roleplay

 

I was soooo afraid they were just going to have the Ishgardians bow down and accept Aymeric making peace with the dragons

 

Thankfully they didn't

 

Ty SE ty

[Warren Castille]

"It's cool, bro. I only tried to cripple your daughter, I didn't kill her! You can't be mad!"

 

Seems flimsy to me, that's all. Not killing Big Lady V still pisses off every side of the war, something killing her also would have done. Nidhogg doesn't strike me as a force of mercy in the world.

 

We'll see. I'm 99% sure Aymeric bites it, but I could also see him doing something else that's stupid and would remove himself from power/the big picture/etcetera. The pauses and his weird phrasing makes me think he has a plan to pull it all together. Get himself offed by Nidhogg, maybe, and unite everyone around his death.

 

Just like in the Avengers!

[mongi291]

In my opinion he'll not die.

I think he'll be hit by Murphy's Law (AKA everything that could go wrong will go wrong; I mean, that has happened like 5 times already so far.) multiple times until he has a breakdown, then he'll recover and do something awesome. Then, MAYBE he'll die, likely in an heroic sacrifice.

[Delilah Scythewood]

Get himself offed by Nidhogg, maybe, and unite everyone around his death.

 

Just like in the Avengers!

 

Or like Shiva.

[allgivenover]

 

The abuse of Succor by the Amdapori included giving life to the dead and to maybe inanimate objects.

 

How so? I mean we saw some undead Amdapori and Mhachi enemies but I figured they were just your standard undead (unsurprising since the place was crawling with voidsent, not every body could be properly put to rest), not a successful attempt at bringing the dead back to life, unless the former actually is what you were implying and I misunderstood- I felt like there wasn't much lore revealed in the new dungeon (as much as I loved what we got) so I'm feeling like there must've been something I missed somewhere.

 

 

The former. What I get from this is that they used Succor to make undead, which is sort of but not really different from regular undead?

 

Although it has been stated that White Magic can "deliver comrades from the icy grip of death itself", I don't think this means it can recover the long dead.

[Shoshopu]

I freaked out more when she called Warren her lover. It was a little creepy. Then again, her having a voice should have been a major clue.

 

her voice in general was really off-putting

 

DRAVARNIANS

[Warren Castille]

Let's just go whole-ham with the theories here. Undead (the conventional sort) are corpses possessed by voidsent (I think!) and are much just animated dead.

 

The mages in Lost City, though, aren't the shambly corpse people. They're more like unlife, really: Empty vessels driven to movement and thought instead of being filled with another thing possessing them. Motor functions return, but the spark of life is out.

 

I can't articulate this well.

[Dravus]

I freaked out more when she called Warren her lover. It was a little creepy. Then again, her having a voice should have been a major clue.

 

her voice in general was really off-putting

 

DRAVARNIANS

 

It reminded me of the voice acting used in The Witcher 3. I liked it - more games need to use a variety of accents from England/Ireland/Scotland that aren't just the 'posh' accent favoured in the mainstream media. 

 

I would have liked Ishgardians to have been given French accents, mind you...but this works too.

[Seriphyn]

I freaked out more when she called Warren her lover. It was a little creepy. Then again, her having a voice should have been a major clue.

 

British regional slang.

[Caspar]

"It's cool, bro. I only tried to cripple your daughter, I didn't kill her! You can't be mad!"

 

Seems flimsy to me, that's all. Not killing Big Lady V still pisses off every side of the war, something killing her also would have done. Nidhogg doesn't strike me as a force of mercy in the world.

 

We'll see. I'm 99% sure Aymeric bites it, but I could also see him doing something else that's stupid and would remove himself from power/the big picture/etcetera. The pauses and his weird phrasing makes me think he has a plan to pull it all together. Get himself offed by Nidhogg, maybe, and unite everyone around his death.

 

Just like in the Avengers!

The cutscene stated it was a declaration of war against traitors to his kind and to Ishgard, IIRC. That would explain why he made an example of Viddy rather than kill her.

[Aaron]

Also, after years of Aaron stealing Thancred's look, Thancred is retaliating by stealing Aaron's personality.

LOOOOOOOL

[Aaron]

ALSO it's said if one of the Warring Triad defeats the other they absorb them and their power and grow exponentially stronger.

 

I think that's why they're called warring triad. .  I'm probably late as Fuck realizing this but whatever man.

[allgivenover]

Talking about it in the chat after this got posted:

 

 

Wow, they are very similar. Hardly the same but the chord presence is enough to convince a lot of people.

[Kellach Woods]

Let's just go whole-ham with the theories here. Undead (the conventional sort) are corpses possessed by voidsent (I think!) and are much just animated dead.

 

Though the animated dead can be re-trained into whatever is needed (See Dead Men, Gentle) if necessary.

 

Also, 10 bucks says the reason why "Gigi" is oddly comforted by his name being that is we're finding out his name is actually Vivi, like everyone else fucking called already, a couple of patches later. Cyr is a great foil to all the craziness of Hildibrand.

 

In so far as the questline I'm not completely done with it yet (my internet was spotty as fuck last night and it's a miracle I actually completed Antitower without a single disconnection) - Antitower was lacking in lore imo.

 

Also Emmallenain being a fucking idiot was nothing new, but the way they made that scene was okay if their goal was him trying to "pass the buck" in a sense - Blame the archer for your decision, but instead it was written as to him being genuinely surprised that an ARCHER when told "DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS" would just fire at her.

 

Ugh - I'm in full on fuck this MSQ shit mode for the next week I'm afraid, and I'm not even at the full MSQ complete yet!

[Ashe]

Discovery:

Alphinaud totally has a crush on Estinien and is off to save his one true love >>

 

*coughs*

Anyways...

In all seriousness, really curious about the Thancred and WoD thing...

 

Emmallenain changing is a good thing!!! Finally someone punched that kid in the face....

The story as a whole...is...more questions than answers imo...

Annoyed that the WoDs and the Alliase thing and the Urianger thing are STILL not touched on...

 

Also when Thancred is like "I think he (Aymeric) is in love with you," or whatever...died.

 

Anywhoooo...need more story...too many questions, not enough answers.

Pissed whatsherface died...she was a nice dragon >.<

[Caspar]

Also, after years of Aaron stealing Thancred's look, Thancred is retaliating by stealing Aaron's personality.

LOOOOOOOL

It's okay. Punished Thancred is at his most badass yet. Somehow he was able to keep a cyclops at bay by himself with no aetheric powers. Though I figure he mostly ran away.

 

I loved the part with him slugging Emmy but I wish I got to do it. 

"You hit me... Even my father never hit me!" He'd say, and I'd say "Then he was too soft on you!"

[Kellach Woods]

honestly

 

fuck thancred for stealing that punch.

[Zelmanov]

Was a little confused/surprised about the "Death to Nidhogg" chant being framed as a negative.

 

I mean yes calling for blood is rarely ever a good thing, but they weren't saying death to all dravanians, they are quite clearly calling for an act against the final person who will not stand down and end the war. 

 

Ishgard's fight was never with Vidofnir, and even Midgardsormr was like "YOu ready to smack down my son?" 

 

So yeah, if anything it could have been better phrased of presented if the intent was less a rekindling of enthusiasm to end the war and more a "back to square one"

[Sounsyy]

Let's just go whole-ham with the theories here. Undead (the conventional sort) are corpses possessed by voidsent (I think!) and are much just animated dead.

 

The mages in Lost City, though, aren't the shambly corpse people. They're more like unlife, really: Empty vessels driven to movement and thought instead of being filled with another thing possessing them. Motor functions return, but the spark of life is out.

 

I can't articulate this well.

 

I saw Amdapor got brought up a few times in thread, so let's go over some things.

 

Firstly, the undead Mhachi and Amdaporians. These are a type of ashkin known as Fomors, undead preserved by magic who still possess a soul, which is why they possess the personality, combative, and magical capabilities they had in life. Fomors fall loosely into the category of Revenants, undead who refuse to accept death, and so fiercely cling to life that their soul does not depart to the Lifestream. Unlike Revenants, however, Fomors are aware that they are dead.

 

These raging revenants are bodies long dead animated by dark magicks. They retain the combat skills they had in life' date=' as well as boasting unholy strength.[/quote']

 

I cover this topic in a bit more detail at the bottom of this post.

 

Now, its a fair theory to believe one of the reasons the elementals believed the Amdaporians corrupted succor was because they created undead, however, we do not actually know if it was the Amdaporians who animated these Fomors or if it were the invading Mhachi or their Voidsent allies. Most Fomors we see in game today date back to the Belah'dian and War of the Sisters eras, wherein powerful thaumaturges and alchemists were both noted for reanimating the dead to use in their armies. Belah'dia especially. And Belah'dia was formed of mages who survived the Great Flood which wiped out Mhach and Amdapor. So... are the undead there because of Amdapor or because of Mhach? We don't know.

 

This moves into another point I saw earlier that animating inanimate objects was a corruption. This was not a corruption actually. Magicks which animated inanimate objects was actually quite a common practice during the 5th Astral Era. Amdapor, Mhach, and Nym all have inanimate constructs in their lore histories. In fact, Amdapor was built by magically animated bricks. Nym was guarded by soulkin, creatures whose soul resides in an external object, such as a golem and their soulstone, or a spriggan and their rock buddy. And Mhach animated entire mountain ranges into golems and such to fight for them. So, this part was likely not the corruption.

 

So, what was the corruption? The final boss. When Amdapor corrupted Succor into a tool for war. When white magic was no longer used to heal, but to hurt. This was the corruption. This is what angered the elementals and possibly why they feared to go into Amdapor while Kuribu still lived. This also fits in very nicely with already established lore of why the elementals drove out the Amdaporians:

 

Hast thou forgotten the pact of Gelmorra? The powers granted to the Padjal must not be used in conflict.

The conjurers teach us that elementals of the Twelveswood are not instruments of war' date=' and no attempt shall be made to use them as such against the Empire.[/quote']

Emboldened by magic' date=' man went on to reach the zenith of glory. But his hunger knew no bounds. Over time, even they who donned the white began perverting their powers for the sake of self-gain, and in this single-minded pursuit scrupled not to sully the sanctity of the Twelveswood. In his pride and avarice, man brought down the wrath of the elementals upon himself.[/quote']

 

 

 

Also, thanks go to Osric for asking last night, there's mention of the "Hannish" people by F'lhaminn and her companions. Hannish refers to people from Radz-at-Han, the capital of Thavnair. Essentially, F'lhaminn and the other scions went into hiding in the Near East.

[Delilah Scythewood]

"It's cool, bro. I only tried to cripple your daughter, I didn't kill her! You can't be mad!"

 

Seems flimsy to me, that's all. Not killing Big Lady V still pisses off every side of the war, something killing her also would have done. Nidhogg doesn't strike me as a force of mercy in the world.

 

We'll see. I'm 99% sure Aymeric bites it, but I could also see him doing something else that's stupid and would remove himself from power/the big picture/etcetera. The pauses and his weird phrasing makes me think he has a plan to pull it all together. Get himself offed by Nidhogg, maybe, and unite everyone around his death.

 

Just like in the Avengers!

The cutscene stated it was a declaration of war against traitors to his kind and to Ishgard, IIRC. That would explain why he made an example of Viddy rather than kill her.

True, true. Still, feels like too much mercy for Nidhogg considering his investment in being the embodiment of revenge. I think if it was any dravanian BUT Vido he would have skewered them like a miqo'bob.

[Kellach Woods]

So do they ever explain why in the shit Raubahn fights exactly like Ifrit or was that just a complete waste of time?

 

Also AYLMAO THE BLUE really needs to spring for some duds if he wants me to fight for him.

[Nero]

Regarding Vidofnir: I get the feeling that Nidhogg didn't kill Vidofnir lest he risk Hraesvelgr intervening directly against him. Wounding Vidofnir is enough to send a message without blatantly provoking Hrasevelgr's brood....maybe. I'm not sure if I should give Square Enix's writers that much credit; I am entirely willing to believe that they're just lazy and don't want to commit to killing a character (stares at Nanamo).

 

Although Nidhogg still should have taken the time to torch some civvies to really reignite the war, pun intended. It would have actually made the result of the conference, well, worrying, and given the ending some weight, rather than Nidhogg just showing up, chortling, and bouncing away while the Ishgardians shake their fists and say "We'll get you next time, Nidhogg, you dastardly scoundrel!"

 

I still have no idea why Thancred is wearing an eyepatch other than "Japanese character design".

 

The Emmallenain bit was kind of nice though I question why it was there at all. Would have been nice for Haurchefant to have been given even a scrap of that kind of character development.

 

Grand melee was silly. Bread and circuses for unity.

 

Prediction: Aymeric is eventually turned into a scapegoat when the war reignites and he is cornered by angry protestors but manages to survive by hiding underneath a nearby dumpster.

[S'imba]

Nidhogg trying to kill dog dragon's kids isn't new though. A lot of that churning mist's stuff is about how Hrasvelgrr and hid brood are traitors. Nidhogg seems to have this attitude of if you're not part of my cause you get to die. (Which isn't surprising considering how insane he his.) 

 

Even though I do kind of feel that Hrasvelgr and Nidhogg  are going to have a showdown, it's going to be just because SE forcing it to happen. Dog dragon just doesn't give a damn about anything. Doesn't help that he kind of agrees with Nidhogg.

[Caspar]

So do they ever explain why in the shit Raubahn fights exactly like Ifrit or was that just a complete waste of time?

 

Also AYLMAO THE BLUE really needs to spring for some duds if he wants me to fight for him.

Ul'dahman beat Ifrit offscreen and copied his ability, which will be useful against the other Primal Masters and Dr. Zodiark.

 

I really wanted to fight for my appropriate GC. I like the Ishgardians, but WoL in their camp felt like a diplomatic incident waiting to happen. The fight was gratifying at least. Where's Raubahn Nanamo EX?

 

Overall though, the patch seemed to set up the next mostly. Minnie dying... Sorta? Seemed final. I would have loved for more Scions to bite the dust but it was a bit of a relief to see one go permanently after so many fakeouts. Though Hydaelyn didn't really use her to tell us that much we didn't already know. Was it worth irrecoverably (maybe) shattering her form just to remind us to beat the Aschians?

[Momo]

Let's just go whole-ham with the theories here. Undead (the conventional sort) are corpses possessed by voidsent (I think!) and are much just animated dead.

 

The mages in Lost City, though, aren't the shambly corpse people. They're more like unlife, really: Empty vessels driven to movement and thought instead of being filled with another thing possessing them. Motor functions return, but the spark of life is out.

 

I can't articulate this well.

 

I saw Amdapor got brought up a few times in thread, so let's go over some things.

 

Firstly, the undead Mhachi and Amdaporians. These are a type of ashkin known as Fomors, undead preserved by magic who still possess a soul, which is why they possess the personality, combative, and magical capabilities they had in life. Fomors fall loosely into the category of Revenants, undead who refuse to accept death, and so fiercely cling to life that their soul does not depart to the Lifestream. Unlike Revenants, however, Fomors are aware that they are dead.

 

These raging revenants are bodies long dead animated by dark magicks. They retain the combat skills they had in life, as well as boasting unholy strength.

 

I cover this topic in a bit more detail at the bottom of this post.

 

Now, its a fair theory to believe one of the reasons the elementals believed the Amdaporians corrupted succor was because they created undead, however, we do not actually know if it was the Amdaporians who animated these Fomors or if it were the invading Mhachi or their Voidsent allies. Most Fomors we see in game today date back to the Belah'dian and War of the Sisters eras, wherein powerful thaumaturges and alchemists were both noted for reanimating the dead to use in their armies. Belah'dia especially. And Belah'dia was formed of mages who survived the Great Flood which wiped out Mhach and Amdapor. So... are the undead there because of Amdapor or because of Mhach? We don't know.

 

This moves into another point I saw earlier that animating inanimate objects was a corruption. This was not a corruption actually. Magicks which animated inanimate objects was actually quite a common practice during the 5th Astral Era. Amdapor, Mhach, and Nym all have inanimate constructs in their lore histories. In fact, Amdapor was built by magically animated bricks. Nym was guarded by soulkin, creatures whose soul resides in an external object, such as a golem and their soulstone, or a spriggan and their rock buddy. And Mhach animated entire mountain ranges into golems and such to fight for them. So, this part was likely not the corruption.

 

So, what was the corruption? The final boss. When Amdapor corrupted Succor into a tool for war. When white magic was no longer used to heal, but to hurt. This was the corruption. This is what angered the elementals and possibly why they feared to go into Amdapor while Kuribu still lived. This also fits in very nicely with already established lore of why the elementals drove out the Amdaporians:

 

Hast thou forgotten the pact of Gelmorra? The powers granted to the Padjal must not be used in conflict.

The conjurers teach us that elementals of the Twelveswood are not instruments of war, and no attempt shall be made to use them as such against the Empire.

Emboldened by magic, man went on to reach the zenith of glory. But his hunger knew no bounds. Over time, even they who donned the white began perverting their powers for the sake of self-gain, and in this single-minded pursuit scrupled not to sully the sanctity of the Twelveswood. In his pride and avarice, man brought down the wrath of the elementals upon himself.

 

 

 

Also, thanks go to Osric for asking last night, there's mention of the "Hannish" people by F'lhaminn and her companions. Hannish refers to people from Radz-at-Han, the capital of Thavnair. Essentially, F'lhaminn and the other scions went into hiding in the Near East.

 

 

I think maybe the Amdapori corruption idea came in the form of the animated blocks/bricks, which were said to be animated by Voidmagics if I am not wrong?  History seems to blame Mhachi for their admittedly vast usage of Voidmagic, but it seems that Amdapor was also a perpetrator of this as well, and I think it was that kind of morally ambiguous norm, that eventually led to the War of the Magi.

 

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on that animated stone theory!

 

I am excited/slash terrified to experience these mentioned scenes! T,T____