Balmung RP, is it dying? Has it changed?

[Livia]

I think everyone did a fantastic job covering it, but I just wanted to add that some members take time off from RP as the end of their school semesters draw to a close. I've known a few people, myself included, who need to take a few weeks away from RP just to focus on final exams around this time of year and in the early winter.

[Flynn Bladebreaker]

Sorry if this sounds like it's beating a dead horse, but I also wanted to give my thoughts on this.

 

Out of the MMOs I've played RPed in the past 10 years (WoW, LotRO, SWTOR, ESO), at least on the EU side of things, I can safely say RP isn't *dead* but it has changed and varies with different communities. I can't speak for other people but I'm going solely off of my own experience.

To put it bluntly, I feel housing (or private safe zones) is killing/replacing open world RP. While it may be unfair to compare to the likes of WoW, that game doesn't have housing and there are always RPers in Stormwind. However the game has a much larger player base and a more open-world feel, less loading screens and instances. LotRO, while also has housing, there is always a healthy amount of people RPing in the likes of Bree every day. SWTOR today, seems everyone has retreated to guild ships and there's 10 or so RPers (mostly Imperial) who hang out at a cantina on Nar Shaddaa. ESO, the only place I know people RP in outside of housing is a tavern in Wayrest, DC area.

FFXIV had a different start when it comes to US and EU locations, as EU didn't really get an unofficial RP server until last year, and most EU players had already settled on Balmung. And we are still trying to push for an open world hub on Omega, much like Quicksand and a place other MMOs have. So far we only have a weekly gathering, rather than a daily compared to other places. Maybe I'm getting old, maybe RP has changed, but I do die a little inside when someone asks "what are the RP hubs?" and answered with "housing location <pos>". Yes I know some people prefer housing, having their own creativity, safe zone, you name it. But it does hurt the open public approach some of us may be used to. Finding RP through word of mouth may also sound easy but again it makes it harder for people used to walking in to a place knowing there'll be RP.

I haven't counted what FCs/Guilds get up to, either, or the busy times of the year. If you aren't in an FC, you probably don't know about the numerous RP events happening. Some are even in the open world, but likely private. So while RPing outside of housing does happen, again it could be private meaning if you see it you can't just walk into it.

TLDR: RP as a whole isn't dying, but to me it feels like it's changed and replacing potential. I'm pretty known as an anti-housing guy, but it's often misunderstood. I like housing, I like the creativity and effort people put into it. I just don't want to see it becoming the replacement for the rest of the game's world we play in. People have often gone to me, "we know you don't like taverns, so we're turning our houses into something else" and that's not what I'm saying at all  Imagine going into one of the Adventurers' Guilds and seeing a notice, "Come to our Adventuring Guild in the Mist" or "Come to our tavern in the Goblet", maaaaaybe that's not the right place to put that kind of flyer unless you want the establishment to run out of business? Alright, that's a little nitpick on IC noticeboards.

My point is, what I think could be potential for a hub is replaced by player housing. I am *well* aware that some players prefer safe zones with no trolls. Back in my day (oh look how old I sound now), we didn't rely on player housing for RP. Not trying to rant or cause an argument, just wanted to give my thoughts based on my own experience.

Quick edit: When it comes to Balmung, I haven't been back there for a year. Before I left it was slowly starting to become harder to find walk-up RP. I remember when Quicksand had no RP at all, until a few of us started meeting up there during early 2.0 days. Then it became a place of RP every day, and then the ERP/trolls started to gather. This is also coming from someone who only has time to RP in EU timezone, there are way more during US hours and I never got the chance to bump into any during their peak time.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Flynn Rosenberg

[Momoka Yukuharai]

I just wanted to add to the thread cause I've been noticing a similar thing.

In regards to events. I feel that they are somewhat lacking in some places. I mean the calendar is full of events and there are many events going on. However, a lot of those events either have really small attendance numbers. I mean I always go to a few here and there and you are lucky to even get 3-4 people in some of them sometimes. I mean don't get me wrong housing rp is okay.

I mean the only really big events are the performance-based ones and usually the tournament ones. I mean I personally do enjoy the grindstone and the new magic tournament that has popped up. The performance events are really hard to get any rp done cause normally you have to watch your posting.

 

I remember back when housing was new and a few months before the server shut. There used to be all kinds of crazy unique and interesting impromptu rp going on. You know where you could have a plot going, get tangled into some big thing by just up and talking to some people may be arguing, drinking, pushing someone up against a pillar and threatening them while people come to help out.

I think as a community that maybe we need to try and get out our homes and out of the events and just try to rp around the towns and stuff for a change. It wouldn't hurt and it would promote and entice so many new rpers into the scene. 

That's just my two cents anyway

[Lydia Lightfoot]

49 minutes ago, lumikou said:

In regards to events. I feel that they are somewhat lacking in some places. I mean the calendar is full of events and there are many events going on. However, a lot of those events either have really small attendance numbers. I mean I always go to a few here and there and you are lucky to even get 3-4 people in some of them sometimes. I mean don't get me wrong housing rp is okay.

 

That's a challenge of the event hosts, not an indicator that the community is dying. In a lot of cases I've seen events of the same general type occurring on the same day of the week with overlapping timing, and so of course their potential attendance will be shot in the foot due to that. A lot of event hosts are rather passive about advertising, too - they just put it on the RPC calendar and hope for the best, but to really drum up a crowd they need to get out there and throw shouts in the main cities, including RR and Kugane, and in some linkshells and Discord servers that exist for general RP socialization. In some cases I've also seen the staff mostly get self-engaged or stand staring into space when there's low attendance, rather than chatting up the attendees (in more than a "can I get you another drink" capacity - they need to interact and befriend their guest).

 

The fact that the actively-advertised events draw a big crowd is the real indicator of how awesomely active the server is. The events with a bad turnout just need to step up their game. Or, maybe they prefer light attendance - that's also a possibility.

[Teadrinker]

I feel like a lot of the criticism of the events other people are taking time to throw pretty much amounts to

"This buffet had hash browns on it instead of sausage and now I'm mad."

If you don't see a type of event happening that you want to see then spearhead it. Organize it, throw it.

[Aedan Marceaux]

Teadrinker beat me to it.

 

I took a lot of time trying to think of a way to word this without sounding argumentative or combative, but it's probably going to sound that way anyway.

 

Out of all of the complaints on here, I'd wager the large majority of complainers aren't going about making the change themselves.

 

If something isn't going the way you want it to, be the change you want. Saying that events aren't what you want and event runners should do xyz is not the way to go about getting what you want. Run an event yourself in the manner you would like. 

 

If you want there to be more RP out in the world rather than in the housing areas or houses themselves, be the person to start it off by doing it yourself.

 

Combine the two ideas... throw your event the way you want it in the area that you want more RP to happen.

 

Be the change you want to see rather than waiting and hoping other people change to meet your desires.

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Saravahn

[Unnamed Mercenary]

1 minute ago, Saravahn said:

Out of all of the complaints on here, I'd wager the large majority of complainers aren't going about making the change themselves

 

This opens up a different, but related issue though: what if someone lacks the resources (we'll say, time and organizational skills for basics) to run said event?

 

-- [generic stuff below]

 

Like a lot of things, it usually a lot easier to participate or be a guest than it is to host something. Of course, if everyone were a guest and nobody hosted, there'd be no guests either. A healthy community needs to have both to function, which I find FFXIV has, but then we get into this topic, which is moreso about taste or preferences.

 

Then we have the logistics of actually getting something planned and public, which I think is partly why RP has kinda shifted from uncontrolled environments to the more controlled ones like housing areas. In the time I've been in game, I've seen what RP was like before and after housing was introduced, let alone made affordable enough for people to buy and then use/get sold out. Back when everything -had- to be public, there were a handful of known disruptive players who would try to troll RPers. Or otherwise get in the way of their scenes, such as spamming effects or clipping thier character model into the people they were trying to disrupt. 

 

Those are far harder to come by in a closed environment where one could theoretically lock house entrance off if absolutely needed. It also means we don't generally have multiple groups using the same spot for different settings/times of day/etc, which I didn't personally run into issues with.

 

In some of the older "open world" RP events that took place in cities and fields alike, we also ran into other issues like "how many people is too many people to coordinate?" And "what happens if the event we're hosting conflicts with someone else's views on the world/lore/setting?" Members from 2014 already know the references. They were fun events, but oh boy do features get ruffled for doing something in public. With villains. Trying to run an event in public also means that the public is going to watch, judge, and/or try to get involved in that event. And complications can arise if add-ins don't necessarily agree with a DM or what I'd call event-layered-lore. And that can make being the change someone wants a little more difficult. Everyone's got the opinions on what's lore-abiding or interesting and everything else. And typically, that's easier done in a Free Company, Linkshell, party, or housing area where some of the public issues can be simplified.

[Aegir]

For those who aren't seeing what they want to see in events - what do you want to see?

What would a meaningful event be to you?

Edited May 7, 2018 by Aegir

[Lydia Lightfoot]

Oh, yeah, hey - just to be totally clear, I'm not complaining about anybody's event. I was only offering a possible explanation to the person I'd quoted as to why they might've gone to some events and seen those particular events having a limited attendance. Everybody should run their event exactly as they mean to run it, and I'm glad they are. :3

[Neryem]

For me though, it's not that the RP is dying. Quite the opposite. I can usually pass a few people in cities and see a few people RPing everywhere.

 

It's that about 90% of it outside of groups or FCs is more or less Tavern Nights / Bar Nights / Slice of Life things (BarP, if you will). Very few will venture outside of such things with exceptions being server wide events or ones that involve a great deal of people or FCs.

[Valence]

6 hours ago, Teadrinker said:

I feel like a lot of the criticism of the events other people are taking time to throw pretty much amounts to

"This buffet had hash browns on it instead of sausage and now I'm mad."

If you don't see a type of event happening that you want to see then spearhead it. Organize it, throw it.

 

I wasn't going to post in that thread because I often couldn't be arsed to care about any open public event most of the time for personal taste and reasons, but I feel obligated to point out: is criticism wrong? Or was it done in a wrong manner to offend?

 

5 hours ago, Aegir said:

For those who aren't seeing what they want to see in events - what do you want to see?

What would a meaningful event be to you?

 

To be perfectly blunt, actual lore/world centric events maybe? Instead of the usual cabarets, speed dating and consorts in private housing areas that could be tied to any RP setting that it wouldn't change anything at all. Don't get me wrong. I've seen some of those from time to time. They are however, even on Balmung, pretty scarse or just not there. I just feel that the open RP scenery in that game is all but about Eorzea.

 

( then there is the timezone issue for me but that's my own issue )

Edited May 7, 2018 by Valence

[Aegir]

14 minutes ago, Valence said:

 

I wasn't going to post in that thread because I often couldn't be arsed to care about any open public event most of the time for personal taste and reasons, but I feel obligated to point out: is criticism wrong? Or was it done in a wrong manner to offend?

 

 

To be perfectly blunt, actual lore/world centric events maybe? Instead of the usual cabarets, speed dating and consorts in private housing areas that could be tied to any RP setting that it wouldn't change anything at all. Don't get me wrong. I've seen some of those from time to time. They are however, even on Balmung, pretty scarse or just not there. I just feel that the open RP scenery in that game is all but about Eorzea.

 

( then there is the timezone issue for me but that's my own issue )

\o/

 

[Aife]

Watcher's Eye Black Market is in an open world location every third sunday of the month, 9 pm est. But as I always say to people with complaints about events- be the change you want to see! As for smaller events, I can vouch that advertising goes a long way into making an event successful. Advertising via discord, tumblr, rpc, using the balmung calender, collaborating with other fc's and even using pf and shout before and/or during an event all do wonders for increasing event attendance. Popping an event on the balmung calender or advertising it when it's on via pf isn't going to get a huge amount of attendance. Like real life, marketing and advertisement goes a long way into an event fetching large numbers. 

[Tregarde]

On 5/6/2018 at 2:34 PM, lumikou said:

 I mean I always go to a few here and there and you are lucky to even get 3-4 people in some of them sometimes.

 

As someone who has run many events & venues over the years (and continues to run one in GW2), sometimes that 3-4 is all you need to feel your event was a success. Numbers alone don't tell the whole story, what mattered is if people had fun. Sometimes a small attendance can be preferable, because as a host you don't need to divide your attention much, and for everyone who attended they are able to chat and RP without annoying amounts of text scroll.

[Liriell]

As someone who have been away for almost a year, I've felt the fear that things wouldn't be as "lively" as before. I mean, I never had the time or opportunity to go deep on RP, but even so, I feel like things are a lot more "closed" than before. I honestly have no idea where to find a new group or FC to RP with, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff, and knowing that most of RP nowadays has been more focused on "housing areas" and "slice of life" stuff makes me a little bit relutant... 

[Maril]

5 hours ago, Liriell said:

As someone who have been away for almost a year, I've felt the fear that things wouldn't be as "lively" as before. I mean, I never had the time or opportunity to go deep on RP, but even so, I feel like things are a lot more "closed" than before. I honestly have no idea where to find a new group or FC to RP with, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff, and knowing that most of RP nowadays has been more focused on "housing areas" and "slice of life" stuff makes me a little bit relutant... 

 

I just don't think it's reasonable to whip up an atmosphere that there is a "trend" on the go, for the whole server, based on one own's individual experiences. You mention you're not good at finding new groups, so that must be what plays in more-so than a big server with 800+ roleplayers clamming themselves up in cliques and refusing to be open and welcoming of new players? I'm not saying that your experiences aren't what they are, but I just don't think it's a trend, or in any way a sign that Balmung is keeling over. 

If I were you I'd; 
- Browse the available listings in the FC/LS halls here on the site, tumblr and also in-game by inspecting any FC that ends in -RP. The Quicksand, even though it's questionable for RP at times, is a great place to find RP FC's because people just stand around like silent advertising beams. 
- Take contact to any/all that you find interesting, invite yourself to some RP and see what you think. You wont get anywhere if you're not proactive, and this process takes time.  
People can't  invite you into plots that go beyond slice-and-life if they don't know who you are, and there's plenty of that to be found. Actually, on that note right now, there's a big open plotline/storyarch called "The Faceless" going on which seems to be something people can readily jump into. I've already assisted in getting people involved just by facilitating a place for players to meet each other. 
- Consider creating a "Looking For Connections" post, both here and on tumblr if you have that 
- Participate/show up to public events, if you don't like tavern events then wait for the one-off-events or consider the fighting tournaments (even as a spectator). There are also some initiatives that pop up now and again which deliberately tries to pair people off for roleplay. 
 

But don't sit down and wait for things to come to you. I have never seen a roleplay community, in ffxiv or other games, where waiting for things to happen is a strategy that pays off. I can understand feeling reluctant, but making all of these assumptions is only going to make it all the more difficult for you to find what you want to find. 

[Oyuu]

5 hours ago, Liriell said:

As someone who have been away for almost a year, I've felt the fear that things wouldn't be as "lively" as before. I mean, I never had the time or opportunity to go deep on RP, but even so, I feel like things are a lot more "closed" than before. I honestly have no idea where to find a new group or FC to RP with, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff, and knowing that most of RP nowadays has been more focused on "housing areas" and "slice of life" stuff makes me a little bit relutant... 

 

You're literally on the RPC forums right now, which has resources in the main navigation menu to find free companies and linkshells. The FFXIV tumblr community also thrives if that's your cup of tea, and there's plenty of discords to find and co-ordinate RP. 

 

Being reluctant to find RP because it might be a bit too 'fluffy' for your liking is shooting yourself in the foot before you've even started. You're barely skimming the surface of what Balmung has to offer. Look, browse, and join things on a whim. Try things out until you find something that clicks. There is plenty of RP to be had if you go forward and just... use your eyes. I can link resources at a later time when I'm not on mobile.  

[Aldric Sayrillont]

I feel that another reason of it could also be the fact that it is the time in-between patches when people usually take time off until the next release from burn out, which can happen at times! So you will probably see a influx of things once the next patch is released.

 

Other than that however for the more larger events that range away from the usual slice of life/tournament stuff we see here you will usually see those things inspired by larger events in the lore happening, such as Realmsward, Othardian Resistance and the Destroyers Dawn, as things progress down the patch cycle im sure more things of the same sort will pop up!

 

Im all up for community projects either way, and so is a lot of the great people we have in the community here! so I am sure if needed some of us can band together with making content like that to help with further bringing the community together, ive already seen some fun things being made peering at the forums ^^

Edited May 14, 2018 by Von Sayrillont
Sentence edit

[Valence]

14 hours ago, Liriell said:

As someone who have been away for almost a year, I've felt the fear that things wouldn't be as "lively" as before. I mean, I never had the time or opportunity to go deep on RP, but even so, I feel like things are a lot more "closed" than before. I honestly have no idea where to find a new group or FC to RP with, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff, and knowing that most of RP nowadays has been more focused on "housing areas" and "slice of life" stuff makes me a little bit relutant... 

 

Take it for what it is, and perhaps from someone jaded with their own set of problems... I know what you mean. I have yet to find precisely anything i get along well in spite of that so called wide and large RP base here on Balmung. And I also think I may have to find myself first at some point as well...

 

Anyway.. i have no easy answer to offer unlike everyone...

 

I have really no idea if things have changed though. Hard to say. Doesnt seem like it to me.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Valence

[Liriell]

 

 

Sorry if my post sounded too pessimistic! It's just a fear that I had before coming back and also a first impression. Which doesn't mean that will be the truth. I just want to make clear that I'm not, at all, criticizing any of those trends. I just feel like they are too "intimate" for me to jump in as a first experience, but I would love to participate on some once I've settled.

 

I'm aware of my weakness and that's why I've come to RPC in first place. I'm just taking a deep breath before diving in. Also, I'm really glad to see lively discussions like this one, special thanks to Maril for a post that complete! Your insights will come in handy for sure. Speaking of which, does anyone have a link for a directory on tumblr or something like that? I've been searching tags related to RP on Balmung, but it would be nice to have an easier way to find people and direct my attention.

[Oyuu]

16 minutes ago, Liriell said:

 

 

Sorry if my post sounded too pessimistic! It's just a fear that I had before coming back and also a first impression. Which doesn't mean that will be the truth. I just want to make clear that I'm not, at all, criticizing any of those trends. I just feel like they are too "intimate" for me to jump in as a first experience, but I would love to participate on some once I've settled.

 

I'm aware of my weakness and that's why I've come to RPC in first place. I'm just taking a deep breath before diving in. Also, I'm really glad to see lively discussions like this one, special thanks to Maril for a post that complete! Your insights will come in handy for sure. Speaking of which, does anyone have a link for a directory on tumblr or something like that? I've been searching tags related to RP on Balmung, but it would be nice to have an easier way to find people and direct my attention.

 

http://mooglemeet.tumblr.com

http://balmungrp.tumblr.com (Discord link: https://discord.gg/DJkQ7E2)

http://balmungrpcalendar.tumblr.com

http://balmung-eu.tumblr.com

 

Here ya go. Good luck with the RP search. o7

[Faye]

18 hours ago, Liriell said:

 I honestly have no idea where to find a new group or FC to RP with, I'm terrible with that kind of stuff, and knowing that most of RP nowadays has been more focused on "housing areas" and "slice of life" stuff makes me a little bit relutant... 

 

Sorry to point out what others already have but I can't not find funny the irony of someone posting on the RPC forums that they don't know where to find people to RP with lol. Here, obviously. Put up looking for connections ads or respond to others' ads. Check out the RPC for free companies, linkshells, and Discords. Start a tumblr and do the same things there. Even the official forums and FFXIV Facebook groups sometimes have ads for RP FC's, RPers, and RP events. Go to events and RP hubs and meet people.

Most people I know who are vehemently against "slice of life" RP only sabotage themselves. I'm not saying you are like that, by any means, but I just want to stress its importance since a little is usually necessary. It's hard to just jump into a middle of a fight scene or storyline with no set up or introductions, just as it's difficult to keep things rolling forever with no downtime. But regardless, just because a lot of RP that happens is closed or in private areas/channels does not at all mean it's "slice of life." Most people keep their fights, story events, and big plotlines out of very public places for, well, obvious reasons.

[Liriell]

@OyuuThank you for the links! They're really useful!

 

And let me try to make myself clear one last time. As an introvert and returning player, I had a fear of coming back and not finding the comunity the same way it was before. Instead, I've found out that things are slightly different, which isn't bad in any way at all. It's only natural that a closed and old world like Balmung would eventually focus more on already stabilished groups. I mentioned housing because, for me personally, it's a little daunting to just run over someone's house and/or daily life and just insert myself or ask for RP (and I know that I'm not the only one, but I'm not speaking for all the new/returning players either).

 

Slice of life is something important AND fun, I believe I don't need to mention its importance since Faye already did a good job with that, but I see it as something a little bit more private and personal. I may be old fashioned, but I like to meet people in a more "public" environment before going to their house for a brunch. None of this means, of course, that I won't participate in this kind of scenario or that I don't enjoy/like it.

 

Also, as I've mentioned, I don't know how to find new groups or stabilish contact in-game. I may not have the courage to just run into people, but I know that sitting down won't take me anywhere, and I never planned on doing so. RPing is a great way to overcome a weakness like that while forging new friendships, and this is the main reason why I decided to start doing it on this game, but I wasn't sure about doing so until I found the RPC. This is a great place both to start fresh and keep oneself updated with the events calendar. It's the first place I visited when I started, and the first place I came back to when I decided to return.

 

I want to apologize again for any misunderstanding, and I'll try to be more cautious in the future.

[Baja]

I wouldn't say RP on Balmung is dying but it does require more effort to start up than back in 2.0 for sure. There is no "tavern RP" in the Quicksand anymore, it's mostly new people trying to figure out how to approach RP and erp alts sleazing around for a good time. 

 

With the popularity of tumblr and discord it seems the always to go is finding a character or theme you like and booking an appointment to interact. That in itself is not for everyone but it's what we've got to work with. 

 

There are a ton of events going on all the time but if your availability isn't lined up for evening RP that's a bust. I don't often go to events as they all seem too random for my characters. I don't see any of them attending a tournament or topless caberet but that's my own choice.

 

I wish there were more events with wiggle room. I like the idea of markets and bars. Give me a setting to work with no matter which character I feel like RPing. Things like fight night or a tea party are setting up what you'll be doing and I don't enjoy that as much for previously mentioned reasons. 

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I can remember if it's already been stated, but something to keep in mind is that not as many people are actively looking to forge new connections these days. The servers have been online since the summer of 2013 and many have found the RP they're looking for, built up contacts IC and OOC, or possibly even unsubbed if they've moved onto other games.

 

So in that sense, RP has changed. We've got a ton of people running events, but to someone new, there are less new people around all trying to "figure out FFXIV RP" and to make something for themselves. At least on Balmung because the population's so big. I've seen parallels in some of the other RP servers' buildups to things I saw back here on the RPC in 2013-2014. It's all pretty...normal, but it's hard to pinpoint when exactly it happened.

 

And that's not a bad thing, but it does mean that rather that a bunch of people reaching out in every direction to find out what they like, that is put more on the people coming in than the people already there. And then it kinda goes to the established people looking for something (or someone) new. And then to the rest who're kinda just content doing their thing.