The Vent Tent - Poor PuGs and Other Terrible Tales

[Unnamed Mercenary]

I feel so awful. I've been trying to get a grasp of how to tank, To shake things up seeing as I've mained DPS my entire life in every MMO I've ever played. Wanted to run a Level Roulette to see how far it would take me from 28 in one go.

 

Get Halatali. I IMMEDIATELY let the party I got know, that I am new to tanking, and I am apologizing in advance, I get a 'ur good' and 'kay', so I figured they are okay with it, and just want an easy roulette.

 

Queue shenanigans.

 

I struggled to maintain aggro on just about every pull. I don't know if I just don't have the rotations down, or if it was because I was undergeared or proportionally that much weaker than the rest of them [who were all likely 60+ outside of the dungeon], a WHM, PUG and RDM.

 

Then I suddenly have a fit of unstable internet service, get disconnected after the second boss, and disconnected when the final boss was at 7%.

 

Needless to say, I feel like I was most certainly one of the worst tanks they've seen in a long time, and I want to apologize to them. Though I am unsure if they would ever see this. Ugh.. I didn't think it'd be THIS hard. I knew Tanking was not a cake walk, but.. Fudge. I need to get better.

 

Which class/job were you playing as? Halatali can be kinda difficult for classes because their stat balance isn't as role-heavy as jobs are. Like DPS, tanking rotations can change a bit depending on level and skills available. Certain skills, like provoke/ultimatum are good to recover enmity, but don't actually generate any. Enmity is basically a number in the game, where certain skills get adjusted. ...so provoke and ultimatum literally just give you current enmity + 1. ...which doesn't help if anyone hits that mob again before you can get another skill off.

 

If you aren't too familiar with tanking, I'd definitely recommend doing the Novice Hall courses. (Aside from getting the gear because that ring is amazing and good till like lv40, even if the exp bonus stops at 30). I'm sure a few of us here could give some pointers depending on what you're playing as.

 

For some generic stuff, the enmity bars in your party list are amazing. (And I often hear people had no idea that they were even there). Marking mobs to focus can help, assuming your DPS follow them. ...and the healer isn't cure/medica-bombing you, since that can easily rip enmity off a struggling tank.

[Charity322]

I'm going to be one of those people. Enmity bars in your party list?

[Aaron]

I'm going to be one of those people. Enmity bars in your party list?

It's a vertical bar to the left of each party member that is red for the person with the most aggro or yellow and is also numbered 1-8 depending on the party size. The lower the number, the more aggro you generated. Tanks should normally have #1 spot, OT can have 2-7 but usually should stay at #2 in case main tank dies.

[Aedan Marceaux]

As a person who has mained tanking classes across all MMOs all the years I've played them, I'd say don't sweat losing aggro in those lower level dungeons, especially if it's your first time ever touching a tank. As Unnamed said, it kind of depends on what tank you were playing for one.

 

In my opinion, GLA/PLD has it the worst in the lower level dungeons until shield oath and rage of halone come along. I'm not saying it's impossible to hold threat, but it certainly can be a challenge, especially to someone new to the whole thing. To my knowledge, they still haven't fixed the bug where flash doesn't start giving the correct amount of threat unless the mob is damaged by the tank first. They've upped the amount of threat it generates, but haven't fixed that bug yet, to my knowledge.

 

MRD/WAR is next in that at least overpower does damage as well as increases enmity. They've lost flash with the release of SB so it can be a bit trickier now, but I still feel like they're a little easier to hold threat with in the lower dungeons. Again, Defiance(tank stance) is a great boon once you get it.

 

DRK is, in my opinion, by far the easiest to hold threat. Unleash is a full circle aoe (like flash) that also does damage (like overpower)while having an enmity multiplier on it. It's fairly spammable, even at a lower level and really makes tanking a snap. Naturally, once you aren't synced and actually have Grit (the tank stance) it's that much easier again.

 

They all suffer from single target threat issues until they get their third part of the combo. Rage of Halone for GLA/PLD, Butcher's Block for MRD/WAR, and Power Slash for DRK.

 

Just keep trying and you'll get the hang of it. Like Unnamed said, head to the hall of the novice if you haven't already... not so much for the training (it's quite lacking for tanks, imo) but for the gear and especially that ring. Once you get your tank stance for whatever class/job you're playing, it'll be much easier. Still not mindless, of course, but leaps and bounds easier.

[Aaron]

If you're spamming Unleash over 30 though like no tomorrow your mp management is gonna be awful.

[Gegenji]

In my opinion, GLA/PLD has it the worst in the lower level dungeons until shield oath and rage of halone come along. I'm not saying it's impossible to hold threat, but it certainly can be a challenge, especially to someone new to the whole thing. To my knowledge, they still haven't fixed the bug where flash doesn't start giving the correct amount of threat unless the mob is damaged by the tank first. They've upped the amount of threat it generates, but haven't fixed that bug yet, to my knowledge.

 

I was unaware such a bug existed... :surprise:

But anyway, my two cents on low-level dungeon tanking as PLD is to basically do your MP combo with Flash as your "finisher" on group pulls. That way you can keep spamming it and keep from running out of MP. You won't do great damage, of course, but as long as the enemies are beating on you and not your DPS/healer, they should be able to handle that part.

[Pip]

Is it Idiot SAM Night or something?

 

I think "I'm gonna tank like daddy!" SAM may be a trend in the player base. I usually run healer in roulettes, and more often than not (more often than DRG and BRD even!) if one of the DPS is going to need extra healing, it's the SAM. Usually it's because the SAM is standing on top of the tank soaking up all the big frontal hits and will not move to the rear of the boss like a sane person. Do they have directional attacks that make them think they need to be there?

[Aaron]

Is it Idiot SAM Night or something?

 

I think "I'm gonna tank like daddy!" SAM may be a trend in the player base. I usually run healer in roulettes, and more often than not (more often than DRG and BRD even!) if one of the DPS is going to need extra healing, it's the SAM. Usually it's because the SAM is standing on top of the tank soaking up all the big frontal hits and will not move to the rear of the boss like a sane person. Do they have directional attacks that make them think they need to be there?

Its the fact that they don't have directionals that make them stand anywhere I believe.

[Gegenji]

Is it Idiot SAM Night or something?

 

I think "I'm gonna tank like daddy!" SAM may be a trend in the player base. I usually run healer in roulettes, and more often than not (more often than DRG and BRD even!) if one of the DPS is going to need extra healing, it's the SAM. Usually it's because the SAM is standing on top of the tank soaking up all the big frontal hits and will not move to the rear of the boss like a sane person. Do they have directional attacks that make them think they need to be there?

 

As someone who is now currently maining and enjoying SAM... they have no directionals, no.

 

What they DO have is Third Eye, which you can activate just before you take damage and reduce it a bit. It also has a couple follow-up abilities that activate once you'd soaked a hit, but they're super later in the levels: Merciful Eyes (58) is a small potency self-heal and - what you'd really be using it for - Hissatsu: Seigan (66), which is a 200 potency attack you can throw out if you have the Kenki energy for it.

 

And, apparently, it's a belief for some SAMs that to maximize their leet deeps they need to be activating Seigan as often as possible. So they stand in stuff they really don't need to be standing in to eke out that extra bit of damage. Which, frankly? I find pointless and more likely than not going to be having you short on Kenki for the important things - like your evasive moves or boosting your Midare damage.

 

What I do with Third Eye-Seigan is use it for those unavoidable AoE attacks like... Dimensional Whatever that's used by all the bosses in the Omega raid, for example. There's no need to be standing in unnecessary extra stuff, especially since for 10 Kenki more (aka, at max level, two more combo hits) you can do a 300 potency attack (Hissatsu: Shinten) that doesn't require you to eat an attack.

 

It should be noted, of course, that this is all under the belief that you have Seigan to begin with. In Crystalis or Hullbreaker NM (or even HM)? You don't have it, so there's no reason to try being a mini-tank. At all.

[Valence]

Seigan is a DPS gain over Shinten (200 potency for 15 kenki versus 300 potency for 25 kenki). It's a no brainer to use Seigan over Shinten whenever you can.

 

But that doesn't mean standing in shit all the time...

 

Also, from what I gather a 3 sen Hagakure is always more potency than a Kaiten boosted Midare.

[Gegenji]

Seigan is a DPS gain over Shinten (200 potency for 15 kenki versus 300 potency for 25 kenki). It's a no brainer to use Seigan over Shinten whenever you can.

 

But that doesn't mean standing in shit all the time...

 

Also, from what I gather a 3 sen Hagakure is always more potency than a Kaiten boosted Midare.

 

I guess, but again - as you agree - it's not something you should actively be taking extra damage to use. If you have situations where you can use Third Eye to get it to proc, then by all means you should try to get that in there. I try it all the time with the final boss of Temple of the Fist and the aforementioned Omega fights. But purposefully running into stuff and eating cleaves and the like to get extra procs is where I draw the line.

 

Also, turning the 3 sen into Kenki is more valuable than doing a Midare? What? I mean, the +60 Kenki is useful and all... but is it really worth dropping a potential 30k-ish single target hit for that? Maybe if you have Guren off cooldown, but otherwise I don't think I've ever really been so low on Kenki that I needed that big of a boost to it.

 

... Maybe I'm just not spending enough of it. Either way, that's a discussion for elsewhere, I think.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

3sen haga always takes priority over midare. and sam do have positionals so true north also helps. more kenki = more shintens or kyutens weaved in while building sens = more dps. if you ever hit 100 kenki (ie using 3sen haga at more than 40 kenki and causing waste) then you're not using shintens/kyutens enough

 

guren and ageha should always be on cd and kaiten should be applied to every iaijutsu, including higanbana. higanbana should be refreshed every minute. squeeze in meikyo as well after at least one 3sen cycle. meditate during phase changes. sam who don't maximize their kenki generation and usage will never break the stone sea sky statues outside rhalgr above 10secs left

[Gegenji]

3sen haga always takes priority over midare. and sam do have positionals so true north also helps. more kenki = more shintens or kyutens weaved in while building sens = more dps. if you ever hit 100 kenki (ie using 3sen haga at more than 40 kenki and causing waste) then you're not using shintens/kyutens enough

 

guren and ageha should always be on cd and kaiten should be applied to every iaijutsu, including higanbana. higanbana should be refreshed every minute. squeeze in meikyo as well after at least one 3sen cycle. meditate during phase changes. sam who don't maximize their kenki generation and usage will never break the stone sea sky statues outside rhalgr above 10secs left

 

Welp, I've been properly schooled. I looked up a "proper" damage rotation and that confirms the burning the 3-Sen for Kenki to get a bunch of Shintens oGCD. And I honestly never noticed that two of the three combo finishers actually require positionals for bonus Kenki. Go figure. At least I do Meditate during phase changes.

 

... Thaaaaat all said, "in front" is still not one of the positionals, so SAMs still shouldn't be sitting in front with the tank eating cleave damage.

[Aaron]

I wish I knew what the hell I just read. Can't even pronounce half those skills. JFC

[Gegenji]

I wish I knew what the hell I just read. Can't even pronounce half those skills. JFC

 

I was not properly utilizing Samurai's Blood Gauge to maximize my phat deeps. And two of the combo finishers add additional Blood Gauge when done from either behind or to the side. I was unaware of this.

 

However, SAM is still not DRK or any other tank so they should still not be hanging out with you in front of the boss. Or running around pulling things for you.

 

(I literally don't know how DRK works past 60. I just pulled up the DRK wiki, saw they had an energy gauge thing too, and ran with it for the sake of the joke.) :blush:

[Aaron]

I wish I knew what the hell I just read. Can't even pronounce half those skills. JFC

 

I was not properly utilizing Samurai's Blood Gauge to maximize my phat deeps. And two of the combo finishers add additional Blood Gauge when done from either behind or to the side. I was unaware of this.

 

However, SAM is still not DRK or any other tank so they should still not be hanging out with you in front of the boss. Or running around pulling things for you.

 

(I literally don't know how DRK works past 60. I just pulled up the DRK wiki, saw they had an energy gauge thing too, and ran with it for the sake of the joke.) :blush:

That actually made much more sense to me LOL

[Charity322]

I wish I knew what the hell I just read. Can't even pronounce half those skills. JFC

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one to think wtf. I don't think I'll try Samurai if it's that complicated lol.

[Avocados]

Am I the only one who felt Kugane was... underwhelming? After visiting Rhalgr's Reach and East End, which were absolutely breathtaking, I couldn't help but feel that the far East (and the journey there, for that matter) felt a little lackluster in comparison. Part of it might be the lighting, which seems somewhat flat, and maybe the lack of a backdrop for contrast? It sort of reminds me of the Chocobo "Forest," aka an ugly stretch of grass with a few gnarled trees. 

[Kieron Lohengrin]

The engine's lighting issues can be fixed by using something like Stormshade. Although tbh I prefer Ishgard over Kugane because HW + Dragonsong war patches gave the pointy-ears so much pathos.

 

Reunion / Dawn Throne > Ishgard cities and ruins > Kugane > Eorzea cities > Rhalgr's. Honorable mention for the ruins of Doma. The city of Ala Mhigo itself doesn't even warrant a mention, it was that bland. Which is weird considering the buildup and how everyone wouldn't shut up and stop banging on about it

[Charity322]

I liked the Sharlayan city. That was really pretty.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

Idyllshire? Yeah, it ranks up there along with Ishgard. Would really prefer housing there with the gobbies instead of Shirogane

[Caspar]

I'm just glad to be somewhere that isn't castles and snow. I loathed Ishgard, its layout and the aesthetic of the region outside of Sea of Clouds, and I didn't give two Bolir buckets about its people. 

 

Overall, I think some areas of Gyr Abania were unexpectedly beautiful, like the reddish color of the sandstone and the desert flower fields. I like the Peaks most, but the city of Ala Mhigo itself looks wonderful, and it's hugely irritating we can't go back to the MSQ special zone near the end of SB. I don't care much for Rhalgr's Reach, but I do like Kugane. In Othard the area that looked nicest to me was the Azim Steppe. I get that the giant wall was kinda meant to be similar to the Great Wall, and I did like the huge amount of different elevations, but the large river basin littered with debris isn't as impressive looking because the wall obscures your vision-much like the xaelabowl in Azim Steppe, it seems like it was meant to make the area look larger by preventing you from looking from one end to the other. Which is fine, limited resources and all that, but it's much more intrusive in Yanxia. The idea itself however is good. (I'm kinda miffed Yanxia is Chinese in aesthetic but populated by Japanese-named characters, ninja and samurai, but that's another matter.)

 

To make that river basin area look more interesting, I would have put the large castrum tower in the distance much closer to us and maybe even make it a place we could visit, if not actually do much there. There should be much larger and more numerous wreckage. Alternatively, there ought to be more ruins than there were; you don't spend much time in the destroyed area around the castle and it's full of enemies, which is something of a drag.

 

Overall though I'm happy with the change of scenery and I hope the next expansion takes us to even more places that aren't generic western fantasy.

[Kieron Lohengrin]

Not a bad experience, just an unusual one - queued to tank in expert roulette, got into Temple of the Fist. Healer said she's new, then asked us all to join her Discord. She proceeds to babble happily over voice chat the entire run, while still tossing out Cures and Stone IVs like a champ and telling me to make big pulls. Once we get to Ivon and kick his ass she does a little running lore commentary about the Coeurlfist title and the monk relic from way back in 2.0.

 

Decent healers are rare; top-tier healers are a treasure

[Arashin Kujqai]

I'm so god damned tired of players that have a tank alt or main but play a different class, deciding for the tank what to pull. I've had so many runs ruined that I couldn't enjoy because a dps wants "big pulls", so the summoner decides to run ahead 50miles and pull things for me like he's the tank. I've had this happen with healers too, deciding it's suddenly their liberty to pull the depths of the earth on their shoulders. It's not even the fact I can't handle big pulls, I in fact have been pulling the most I can that I have come to expect when I have been on a dps.

 

Just so tired of people not playing the role they are... you're a healer... So why are you tanking? You're a dps so why are you tanking? It doesn't just happen like this either, I find dps that decide to specifically heal(rdm's/smn's) and it just annoys me to no end. And I have people say to just let them do it but that only causes strain on the healer to have to heal a dps and the tank at the same time as well as getting the healer aggro. In turn if I choose to do this, it just makes me look like a bad tank..... If you wanted to be a tank in this dungeon or a healer, level one or choose it when you queue. Why do people do this =.=

[Charity322]

I still remember the dungeon when the WHM ran out of mana and I was healing the tank on the last boss as Summoner lol. We were so close to dying.

 

Usually though, the only thing I bother to heal is my carby, because I've never seen a healer heal a carby and some bastard removed Sustain. DX