2.5 SPOILER THREAD (Do not enter unless you have completed 2.5 Story!)

[Sounsyy]

Who wants to bet Elidibus is her father or something?? Theories?

 

Well... considering Minfilia's father's name is Warburton and we see him (albeit briefly) in 1.0 before his death, I'mma go ahead and nip this theory in the bud. But I will take your money? 1 million gil plz.

 

WHAT HAPPENS IN GOLD SAUCER STAYS IN GOLD SAUCER

[Steel Wolf]

OH GODS WHY DIDN'T I THINK TO TALK TO URIANGER?!

 

I'm gonna get the feels again aren't I? ; ;

[Havoc Snow]

Who wants to bet Elidibus is her father or something?? Theories?

 

Well... considering Minfilia's father's name is Warburton and we see him (albeit briefly) in 1.0 before his death, I'mma go ahead and nip this theory in the bud. But I will take your money? 1 million gil plz.

 

WHAT HAPPENS IN GOLD SAUCER STAYS IN GOLD SAUCER

It's not very likely, but it's still a possibility actually. Warburton gets crushed by the rampaging Goobbue in 1.0 when he shoves her out of the way, then they try to resurrect him using Necromancy. Who is to say that didn't somehow cause some sort of weird... iunno, for lack of a better term "Heartless/Nobody" which spawned Elidibus?

[Crisiet]

Still tired of Minfilia's shit.

 

Moenbryda death and Urianger's reaction to what happened was heartbreaking though.

 

/hugs Urianger forever

[Warren Castille]

Who wants to bet Elidibus is her father or something?? Theories?

 

Well... considering Minfilia's father's name is Warburton and we see him (albeit briefly) in 1.0 before his death, I'mma go ahead and nip this theory in the bud. But I will take your money? 1 million gil plz.

 

WHAT HAPPENS IN GOLD SAUCER STAYS IN GOLD SAUCER

It's not very likely, but it's still a possibility actually. Warburton gets crushed by the rampaging Goobbue in 1.0 when he shoves her out of the way, then they try to resurrect him using Necromancy. Who is to say that didn't somehow cause some sort of weird... iunno, for lack of a better term "Heartless/Nobody" which spawned Elidibus?

 

I briefly thought of that, too. We can't rule it out, and it feels like the kind of 11th Hour Reveal that SE might pull.

 

It's probably something simpler, though; Elidibus has seen that brute force makes for poor plans, and by appealing to our wiser senses with dialogue and the "we're not so different" speech he's going to try and get us to side with him or work willingly beside him. He outright says that if we understood the Echo that we'd want the same thing he does, so he's clearly not on the KILL CRUSH DESTROY angle, insomuch as raising a dark god can be.

[Sounsyy]

Who wants to bet Elidibus is her father or something?? Theories?

 

Well... considering Minfilia's father's name is Warburton and we see him (albeit briefly) in 1.0 before his death, I'mma go ahead and nip this theory in the bud. But I will take your money? 1 million gil plz.

 

WHAT HAPPENS IN GOLD SAUCER STAYS IN GOLD SAUCER

It's not very likely, but it's still a possibility actually. Warburton gets crushed by the rampaging Goobbue in 1.0 when he shoves her out of the way, then they try to resurrect him using Necromancy. Who is to say that didn't somehow cause some sort of weird... iunno, for lack of a better term "Heartless/Nobody" which spawned Elidibus?

 

Well, kinda. High Priest Mumuepo gave Niellefresne a dagger enchanted with the power to resurrect Warburton briefly. However, when Niellefresne opens the casket, he does not find what he expects and is shanked right after. So no necromancy ever gets to occur.

 

We never find out exactly what happened to them but naturally there's several theories. Some say Corguvais finished Niellefresne off before he could find out Warburton and him were Garlean double agents. Another theory ponders the fact that Niellefresne's assassin has a very... Hyuran frame and that maybe Warburton didn't die at all and silenced Niellefresne to cover up his fake death. It could've been a third party. We may never know.

 

(Skip to 10:35)

[Kailia]

First, the main story ending of 2.5 made me cry  I liked moony.

 

Second, wow did the Hildibrand story drop major lore bombs on us! Here is what we've now learned:

• When the mages of the world caused the Sixth Umbral Calamity, they were persecuted and left to form Belah'dia, a city devoted to magic. A city run by mages for mages.
  
• When the head family of Belah'dia produced twin heir's the heirs when it came time to take over, argued which one was the true heir to the throne.
  
• To settle the dispute between the twins, Belah'dia was split into 2 nations, Ul'dah and Sil'dih
  
• Ul'dah was all about strength and power, while Sil'dih was about knowledge and prosperity (I may of goofed on this going by just memory lol)
  
• Rivalry continued between the two siblings and their respective nations ended up having the same rivalry with the sister nation.
  
• War broke out between Ul'dah and Sil'dih, with both sides having a stalemate.
  
• The war came to an end with Ul'dah developing powder that turns the dead and living into zombies and launched it at Sil'dih, wiping that nation out save for a few survivors.
  
• One survivor broke into Ul'dah's vaults and stole quite a bit of the zombie powder weapon to store away, but was infected by the stuff and died. His ancestors continued the plot.
  
• Ul'dah found and laid claim to the 4 Belah'dian relics as their own, even though they were used by the survivors of Sil'dih to hide away their stolen loot. 
  
• Ul'dah, to cover up what they had done to Sil'dih, formed a secret society that was charged with rewriting history and pinning the zombie powder on Sil'dih instead of themselves. That society was then charged with ensuring the true history was never revealed to the public.
  

As if we needed more reason to dislike Ul'dah. But ya know what, this gives me ideas for my lalafell thaumaturge and why her parents were murdered by a brass blade. Makes a lot of sense now

[Dravus]

Assuming the Sultana knows of the situation surrounding Ul'dah and Sil'dih then that adds a pretty major dose of grey to her aura of supposed innocence. It seems like something major will happen in Ul'dah during the next two patches which may serve to redirect a lot of attention away from Ishgard.

 

I must admit as much as I loathe Hildibrand the entire story turned out to be pretty dark and interesting.

[Coatleque]

Dat Mrs. Manderville.

[Gegenji]

Dat Mrs. Manderville.

 

So when do we learn that the Mandervilles are descendants of the Fabul royal family?

[Havoc Snow]

[*]Ul'dah was all about prosperity and power, while Sil'dih was about knowledge and power (I may of goofed on this going by just memory lol)

Both cities wanted power, the difference was that one wanted wealth and the other wanted knowledge.

[Coatleque]

Both cities wanted power, the difference was that one wanted wealth and the other wanted knowledge.

 

That may seem to paint one side as 'good' vs 'evil'

But consider:

With wealth you can buy knowledge.

With knowledge you can earn wealth.

 

Seems fairly balanced to me.

[Kage]

I believe Ul'dah wants wealth/prosperity and power. Sil'dih had knowledge and power. I -just- realized this when thinking of QARN while doing these Hildibrand quests. You have the regular scales of the Immortal Flames but Qarn's puzzle scales FRUIT of Knowledge and FLAMES of Power~

 

Also *descendants not ancestors ;3

[Havoc Snow]

Both cities wanted power, the difference was that one wanted wealth and the other wanted knowledge.

 

That may seem to paint one side as 'good' vs 'evil'

But consider:

With wealth you can buy knowledge.

With knowledge you can earn wealth.

 

Seems fairly balanced to me.

I'm just going off of what the game says

 

Cocobuki: Two scales, one of gold and one of silver. The gold of Ul'dah, weighing prosperity and power. The silver of Sil'dih, weighing knowledge and power. But the power sought by the two nations differed greatly─yes, greatly indeed. The power wrought by Ul'dahn prosperity was that of justice and good, while the power wrought by Sil'dihn knowledge was horrific beyond belief─the power to rip the living soul out of a man and render him a mindless killing machine.

 

Though we know by the end of the storyline this isn't true, this is the line that K'ailia was referring to in her post.

[Aldotsk]

It felt like it was intentional to kill a femroe in the story. 

 

*senses discrimination coming from the FFXIV scriptwriter*

[Havoc Snow]

Assuming the Sultana knows of the situation surrounding Ul'dah and Sil'dih then that adds a pretty major dose of grey to her aura of supposed innocence. It seems like something major will happen in Ul'dah during the next two patches which may serve to redirect a lot of attention away from Ishgard.

 

I must admit as much as I loathe Hildibrand the entire story turned out to be pretty dark and interesting.

I sincerely doubt Nanamo is aware of Ul'dah's seedy history in this regard, the fact that even the Thaumaturges weren't aware of it would suggest as much and that the people who were in charge of covering up that dirty little secret didn't even know anymore that they were covering it up. She's the 16th descendant of the first ruler of Ul'dah, that is a loooooong ass time, probably dating back to even before the war between Ishgard and the Dragons.

[Kage]

Don't forget that the conspiracy group is on the level of *GASP*OMG*GASP*Free Masons! Illuminati!!*GASPAHH*

 

Not even the people who were in it seemed to know that it was -false- information that they were -keeping- and enforcing.

 

edit

 

Reddit Post

 

Anyone else noticed the rather huge difference between the things Midgardsomr says in the japanese version and in the english version?

 

For those who don't speak japanese, there is pretty much 3 times as much text than in the english version. Also, he mentions a number of rather important things that are at most barely hinted at in the english version.

 

1.He did not roar, but one of his seven sons did. He was merely awakened by it.

 

 

2.The people of Ishgard commited some kind of sin in the past, and are now about to commit another one. That's why the dragons will go to war. I believe he also makes a reference to the Ascians controlling them, but I couldn't quite catch it.

 

 

3.The whole Crystal scene takes a quite different air on. While in the english he basically removed the Blessing of Light (which we got in addtion to the Echo), he seals it in the japanese and mentions that even if he didn't do it, the "Shadow" would've done it eventually. Also, the whole thing is supposed to be a test.

 

 

4.Speaking of test, the little minion we get? That's Midgardsomr watching us, to see if we will follow the same way as other humans, and commit sins without care. Though you could've probably figured that out yourself.

 

 

5.He does mention that the war cannot be stopped, but that we may be able to influence it and at the very least make sure it doesn't get that much worse.

 

 

6.It seems he tests us because he thinks that that is Hydalins intention and he agrees with that. He seems to be on good footing with her.

 

 

So yeah, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that changes quite a few things, right? I haven't continued the story yet, but it seemed weird that there would be such a difference.

 

Also, I would be grateful if someone could provide a transcript of the jap & eng scenes, so we can compare them easier.

[Sounsyy]

She's the 16th descendant of the first ruler of Ul'dah, that is a loooooong ass time, probably dating back to even before the war between Ishgard and the Dragons.

 

Um, not exactly. Ul'dah is only 600 years old. The Dragonsong War between Ishgard and Dravania is over 1000 years long. Also the War of the Sisters only happened 400 years ago so not sure what relevance Nanamo being the 16th Descendant of the first Ul sultan of Ul'dah has to do with her knowledge or ignorance of the events of the War of the Sisters? You're right in that she probably doesn't know the truth about the War, but more likely because she was never told/taught versus it being a long time ago.

[Telluride]

It felt like it was intentional to kill a femroe in the story. 

 

*senses discrimination coming from the FFXIV scriptwriter*

 

Thing is, to me, Moony wasn't just a Femroe - she was the most engaging and interesting of her race offered to us in these quests. I mean, come on - smart, good with her axe, willing to get her hands dirty in a fight, flirty yet loyal (to an Elezen who was cold to her, even) , cool in demeanor with a touch of sass, and good at what she did. She was THE Femroe.

 

Frankly, I think they killed her because nobody at SE is a good enough or smart enough writer to properly use a character like that, so they had to kill her before she took over the Scions simply because she was vastly more COMPETENT AT EVERYTHING than any of them save maybe Papalymo or Y'shtola at their best. (I don't include Cid and crew in this comparison, but let's be honest - Biggs and Wedge would never get anything done with her around)

 

I would bet you a lot of gil that Moenbryda would never develop sudden leg cramps in Little Solace....

 

I just realized that I'm picturing replacing old Chuck Norris memes with Moenbryda memes, so... I am stepping away from the keyboard.

[TheLastCandle]

I just want to say I feel like Hildibrand and his crazy family are among the best things FFXIV has to offer. His quest line is so uniquely Final Fantasy. In many ways, it serves as a love letter to the long-time fans. There is more than enough "srs plot" in the MSQ, and I enjoy it as well, but I grew up playing a series with talking cephalopods, yetis who join your party, bat-winged plushies with pom-poms on their heads, and exaggerated cartoony expressions.

 

This game needs more questlines like Hildibrand's, not fewer.

[V'aleera]

Don't forget that the conspiracy group is on the level of *GASP*OMG*GASP*Free Masons! Illuminati!!*GASPAHH*

 

Not even the people who were in it seemed to know that it was -false- information that they were -keeping- and enforcing.

 

edit

 

Reddit Post

 

Anyone else noticed the rather huge difference between the things Midgardsomr says in the japanese version and in the english version?

 

For those who don't speak japanese, there is pretty much 3 times as much text than in the english version. Also, he mentions a number of rather important things that are at most barely hinted at in the english version.

 

1.He did not roar, but one of his seven sons did. He was merely awakened by it.

 

 

2.The people of Ishgard commited some kind of sin in the past, and are now about to commit another one. That's why the dragons will go to war. I believe he also makes a reference to the Ascians controlling them, but I couldn't quite catch it.

 

 

3.The whole Crystal scene takes a quite different air on. While in the english he basically removed the Blessing of Light (which we got in addtion to the Echo), he seals it in the japanese and mentions that even if he didn't do it, the "Shadow" would've done it eventually. Also, the whole thing is supposed to be a test.

 

 

4.Speaking of test, the little minion we get? That's Midgardsomr watching us, to see if we will follow the same way as other humans, and commit sins without care. Though you could've probably figured that out yourself.

 

 

5.He does mention that the war cannot be stopped, but that we may be able to influence it and at the very least make sure it doesn't get that much worse.

 

 

6.It seems he tests us because he thinks that that is Hydalins intention and he agrees with that. He seems to be on good footing with her.

 

 

So yeah, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that changes quite a few things, right? I haven't continued the story yet, but it seemed weird that there would be such a difference.

 

Also, I would be grateful if someone could provide a transcript of the jap & eng scenes, so we can compare them easier.

 

I feel like most of these points were covered in English as well. In English we're explicitly told that one of his seven sons wants war and sent out the call, as well as his accusations against Ishgard.

 

As far as being tested, while he doesn't come outright and state that as his intention, he makes it clear that he intends to stick around and evaluate our actions.

 

I'm not entirely sure how anyone could have possibly been confused about the little dragon being Midgardsormr.

 

His relationship with Hydaelyn is also clearly hinted at in English.

 

I feel some of these recent posts about the English/Japanese scripts being different are really pulling at straws.

[Knight Kat]

Don't forget that the conspiracy group is on the level of *GASP*OMG*GASP*Free Masons! Illuminati!!*GASPAHH*

 

Not even the people who were in it seemed to know that it was -false- information that they were -keeping- and enforcing.

 

edit

 

Reddit Post

 

Anyone else noticed the rather huge difference between the things Midgardsomr says in the japanese version and in the english version?

 

For those who don't speak japanese, there is pretty much 3 times as much text than in the english version. Also, he mentions a number of rather important things that are at most barely hinted at in the english version.

 

1.He did not roar, but one of his seven sons did. He was merely awakened by it.

 

 

2.The people of Ishgard commited some kind of sin in the past, and are now about to commit another one. That's why the dragons will go to war. I believe he also makes a reference to the Ascians controlling them, but I couldn't quite catch it.

 

 

3.The whole Crystal scene takes a quite different air on. While in the english he basically removed the Blessing of Light (which we got in addtion to the Echo), he seals it in the japanese and mentions that even if he didn't do it, the "Shadow" would've done it eventually. Also, the whole thing is supposed to be a test.

 

 

4.Speaking of test, the little minion we get? That's Midgardsomr watching us, to see if we will follow the same way as other humans, and commit sins without care. Though you could've probably figured that out yourself.

 

 

5.He does mention that the war cannot be stopped, but that we may be able to influence it and at the very least make sure it doesn't get that much worse.

 

 

6.It seems he tests us because he thinks that that is Hydalins intention and he agrees with that. He seems to be on good footing with her.

 

 

So yeah, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that changes quite a few things, right? I haven't continued the story yet, but it seemed weird that there would be such a difference.

 

Also, I would be grateful if someone could provide a transcript of the jap & eng scenes, so we can compare them easier.

 

Fern tells us why there is a difference between the Japanese and English translations, and more about Dragon language here.

 

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/215647

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Dravus]

I'm all for more humour but I don't think Hildibrand's stuff is truly 'Final Fantasy'. IX was a pretty dark game but still had a lot of humour but even though Steiner and Zidane weren't very intelligent neither of them stood around making repetitive poses at the camera.

 

I think it's better served as a unique experience, perhaps expanded upon in the future. We'll be getting the Manderville Gold Saucer soon enough so I assume by the name that Hildibrand will be busy running that.

 

I did find some stuff in the Hildibrand quests amusing but I certainly wouldn't want to see it continue in every patch when there's other things we could be getting instead. Variety is important after all!

[Melkire]

Sounds like the Japanese was just more explicit than the English was.

[Kellach Woods]

Things that irk me with Moenbryda's death.

 

- She was legitimately the only Scion that actually did anything.

- She had a background.

- She was fridged for Urianger to show emotion.

- The other Scions have the depth of cardboard.

 

Like, I didn't play 1.0 - I don't know if any of the other scions are actually characters, but all of them are annoying at best and outright Ul'dah-levels infuriating. Yda is outright the most stupid character in this game, INCLUDING HILDIBRAND.